3 ms·

> The No Screens Cafe accepts cash only. This is very strange. Maybe this would work in USA(?) but in many countries you're basically telling an overwhelming m

by mvdtnz 3y ago

> The No Screens Cafe accepts cash only. This is very strange. Maybe this would work in USA(?) but in many countries you're basically telling an overwhelming majority of your potential customers "you can't pay for things here". No one carries cash - it's all EFTPOS or CC. I don't see how cash-only supports the no screens policy. It feels entirely orthogonal. Same goes for the weird anti-car crusade. If you don't have parking, that's fine. No need to make it a thing.

belter 3y ago
> - The No Screens Cafe accepts cash only. Welcome to Germany ...
smaudet 3y ago
Pretty much all card readers use a screen, even if it is just a cheap green one. You could design one without, which would be interesting, but good luck integrating with the major cc companies.
- Edd314159 3y ago
  I wonder if there are some issuers out there who still have some active legacy backoffice process for processing transactions with carbon copies from imprinter machines
- hanoz 3y ago
  Wouldn't it do just to hook it up to an online processor, as if a web page?
  - smaudet 3y ago
    Hmm, possibly but I am thinking there are some certification requirements e.g. and you have to be able to use some API whether that is hypermedia or otherwise, which again credit card companies must agree to let you use. You could maybe bypass them with a third party API, I'd have to do my research to see what the gotchas might be though.
- shagie 3y ago
  Getting a mag strip reader (MSR) isn't hard and a USB can be found for under $20. So you read out the tracks and get the data. You would need to input the amount. Keypad and 7 segment display should work there. While smart watches aren't ok, I suspect that the some electrical cash register is acceptable... and then... Wait a moment, if they've got an electric cash register they've got the ability to have a MSR. Anyways, let's assume that the 7 segment display for input of the amount is acceptable. If not... Nixie tubes? Once the amount to charge is entered, and the card is swiped through the MSR, a receipt printer with the result is used (though they might have issues about that since thermal paper receipts often have BPA https://www.pca.state.mn.us/business-with-us/bpa-and-bps-in-thermal-paper https://www.pca.state.mn.us/business-with-us/bpa-and-bps-in-... ) Anyways, result of the transaction through whatever payment processor happens and is sent back to the pi (no screen) that then prints out the result. Sending credit card number to a payment processor from a MSR is no more difficult than sending it to the same processor from hand entered (for example, online). You might have a higher fee rate, but it's not difficult.
  - lozenge 3y ago
    In the EU this isn't allowed any more, any in person transactions need to be done with Chip and PIN or NFC.
chrismartin 3y ago
We would accept cards, but all the payment terminals have a screen. We looked into getting an imprinter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_imprinter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_imprinter) but they're especially vulnerable to fraud, and most cards don't work with them anymore because they aren't embossed. If you can't pay with cash, you're welcome to wash a load of dishes.
- smaudet 3y ago
  It doesn't exist (yet) but pair this https://www.amazon.com/Digi-1st-Counter-Digital-Mechanical/dp/B00T8K1PVQ/ref=asc_df_B00T8K1PVQ?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80676783691755&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=m&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584276308977677&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/Digi-1st-Counter-Digital-Mechanical/d... with a paper notification (behind plexi) and some green/red leds, and a raspberry pi and you could have a screen-less card reader.
- netsharc 3y ago
  > We would accept cards, but all the payment terminals have a screen. Well this sticking to the rules no matter what is where you lose my sympathy. This is like TSA agressively checking toddlers and old grannies for making the scanner go beep or having some water, because, hey, if the scanner beeps they might be terrorists. Just like screens are a new thing, this inflexible robot-like-behavior is also new, and geez, I wish you could also fight the second one. Sure payment terminals are screens, but it's not like they're addictive screens where you get tweets or text messages...
  - haswell 3y ago
    > Well this sticking to the rules no matter what is where you lose my sympathy Cash-only places are less common than they used to be, but there are still some really popular places to eat near me. And they’re popular for a good reason: they provide excellent food/service, and delivery services can’t insert themselves into the business model. It means I have to pass an ATM that day, but it’s a perfectly viable model. If I’m going to a place called no screens cafe, I’d personally appreciate the complete commitment to the endeavor. If nothing else, it’s an invitation to ponder the frictionless ways we part with our money almost everywhere else. Comparing “cash only” to “aggressive TSA” seems like a rather stretched analogy.
stronglikedan 3y ago
Seems like it is in the USA, if it exists, and mentions it's in a city. It's a pretentious enough idea that it might actually work in a US city.
etothepii 3y ago
This is easily done, in Bermuda Rock Island Cafe is cash only but you can also have an account with them that is run on file cards that you can top up. Since their coffee is the best coffee on the island no one minds the extra hassle.
- curiousObject 3y ago
  but you can also have an account with them that is run on file cards that you can top up. Is that file card a thing that the customers carry with them? Because: Other businesses could begin accepting those same file cards, and the idea will become even more popular and successful and then… oh…
  - etothepii 3y ago
    No the file cards stay at the shop. Since it's a balance written in felt tip pen it would probably be a little too easy to cheat ...
ghaff 3y ago
Cash only isn't unheard of. I carry a little bit with me. But it's pretty rare for something like a cafe, restaurant, etc. and I expect a lot of people don't carry cash especially if they just stick a few cards on the back of their phones. That said, I'm pretty sure this is just an exercise in imagining a very retro sort of establishment. I have a lot of trouble imagining a place like this working.
- xur17 3y ago
  Yeah, definitely isn't totally unheard of. A restaurant and barbershop near me are both cash only.
hattmall 3y ago
Cash only is very common at a lot of places in the US. It's sort of a thing that signifies quality and affordability. Pretty much all of them have an ATM so it's not really a big deal. It's much faster and places that can make it with those policies are obviously worth visiting.
- mvdtnz 3y ago
  Those kinds of hole-in-the-wall places in New Zealand are overwhelmingly more like to have a "no cash" policy.
- orhmeh09 3y ago
  It was the same in Germany when I visited about 10 years ago. Wonder if it's changed?
- ck425 3y ago
  How is it faster? And why does it signify quality and affordability?
  - hattmall 3y ago
    "Here's your bill." "Ok, here's my money." Or you just leave money on the table and go. There's no messing with cards or paper and signing. The back and forth etc. That goes like triple for bars where you just hand over money vs, asking to open or close and putting it in the computer etc. Quality because they are so good they don't need to do worry about alternative forms of payment. Affordability because the price is the price, no fees and they are making so much money they aren't worried about maximizing tickets and table time metrics and all that. It's definitely not going to be a corporate establishment. The owner is probably in the business and they want it to be good because that's where they eat.
  - haswell 3y ago
    At least in my experience, I think the perception of quality comes from the fact that these places are the kinds of places that just never modernized beyond cash because they’re already good enough to always be busy or past capacity. There is no incentive to modernize because doing so would not increase business, and not doing so does not decrease business enough to matter. One of the best things about the cash only places I frequent is that they don’t have to deal with delivery services injecting themselves into the business model and consuming kitchen capacity for people not actually present. This leads to faster service overall and at worst the speed of service slows down proportionally to the number of customers at the location at any given point. And usually these places are family run so you’re always seeing the same folks behind the counter and they actually care. All combined, these factors lead to the elevated status that many ascribe to cash only places.
bee_rider 3y ago
I think it is an exercise in creative writing rather than a description of an actual business. Lots of business models work better inside our heads. I can see wanting to rant about cars, they are pretty bad in terms of polluting and killing people (which are objectively pretty bad characteristics, whether or not we’ve looked at the trade offs and decided to get one anyway).
usrusr 3y ago
The business of a cafe is all about identity. The food and drink and service? Once a certain bar of "good enough" is taken any further difference beyond won't make a decisive difference and that good enough bar isn't all that high (I wouldn't be able to run a cafe but plenty of people are). The rest is all in some way about identity. (Hopefully, and edit:) not in terms of who your ancestors were, but in terms of what cafes you like. From slick, perfectly interchangeable interior design showrooms to that hamster cafe in Fleabag, it's all about trying to make a certain slice of the audience feel that "yeah, I totally see myself going to a place like that" connection. If it works, that is if that audience not only exists in sufficient numbers but is also underserved, they did the right thing. Note that they aren't suggesting that people set cars on fire or anything like that, just that people who aren't physically addicted to cars might feel more are home than others.
brianwawok 3y ago
Very very high percent of US is in card. But very rare not to also accept cash, it’s not an insignificant percent of people.

by mvdtnz 3y ago

belter 3y ago

> - The No Screens Cafe accepts cash only. Welcome to Germany ...

smaudet 3y ago

Pretty much all card readers use a screen, even if it is just a cheap green one. You could design one without, which would be interesting, but good luck integrating with the major cc companies.

Edd314159 3y ago
I wonder if there are some issuers out there who still have some active legacy backoffice process for processing transactions with carbon copies from imprinter machines
hanoz 3y ago
Wouldn't it do just to hook it up to an online processor, as if a web page?
- smaudet 3y ago
  Hmm, possibly but I am thinking there are some certification requirements e.g. and you have to be able to use some API whether that is hypermedia or otherwise, which again credit card companies must agree to let you use. You could maybe bypass them with a third party API, I'd have to do my research to see what the gotchas might be though.
shagie 3y ago
Getting a mag strip reader (MSR) isn't hard and a USB can be found for under $20. So you read out the tracks and get the data. You would need to input the amount. Keypad and 7 segment display should work there. While smart watches aren't ok, I suspect that the some electrical cash register is acceptable... and then... Wait a moment, if they've got an electric cash register they've got the ability to have a MSR. Anyways, let's assume that the 7 segment display for input of the amount is acceptable. If not... Nixie tubes? Once the amount to charge is entered, and the card is swiped through the MSR, a receipt printer with the result is used (though they might have issues about that since thermal paper receipts often have BPA https://www.pca.state.mn.us/business-with-us/bpa-and-bps-in-thermal-paper https://www.pca.state.mn.us/business-with-us/bpa-and-bps-in-... ) Anyways, result of the transaction through whatever payment processor happens and is sent back to the pi (no screen) that then prints out the result. Sending credit card number to a payment processor from a MSR is no more difficult than sending it to the same processor from hand entered (for example, online). You might have a higher fee rate, but it's not difficult.
- lozenge 3y ago
  In the EU this isn't allowed any more, any in person transactions need to be done with Chip and PIN or NFC.

chrismartin 3y ago

We would accept cards, but all the payment terminals have a screen. We looked into getting an imprinter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_imprinter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_imprinter) but they're especially vulnerable to fraud, and most cards don't work with them anymore because they aren't embossed. If you can't pay with cash, you're welcome to wash a load of dishes.

smaudet 3y ago
It doesn't exist (yet) but pair this https://www.amazon.com/Digi-1st-Counter-Digital-Mechanical/dp/B00T8K1PVQ/ref=asc_df_B00T8K1PVQ?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80676783691755&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=m&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584276308977677&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/Digi-1st-Counter-Digital-Mechanical/d... with a paper notification (behind plexi) and some green/red leds, and a raspberry pi and you could have a screen-less card reader.
netsharc 3y ago
> We would accept cards, but all the payment terminals have a screen. Well this sticking to the rules no matter what is where you lose my sympathy. This is like TSA agressively checking toddlers and old grannies for making the scanner go beep or having some water, because, hey, if the scanner beeps they might be terrorists. Just like screens are a new thing, this inflexible robot-like-behavior is also new, and geez, I wish you could also fight the second one. Sure payment terminals are screens, but it's not like they're addictive screens where you get tweets or text messages...
- haswell 3y ago
  > Well this sticking to the rules no matter what is where you lose my sympathy Cash-only places are less common than they used to be, but there are still some really popular places to eat near me. And they’re popular for a good reason: they provide excellent food/service, and delivery services can’t insert themselves into the business model. It means I have to pass an ATM that day, but it’s a perfectly viable model. If I’m going to a place called no screens cafe, I’d personally appreciate the complete commitment to the endeavor. If nothing else, it’s an invitation to ponder the frictionless ways we part with our money almost everywhere else. Comparing “cash only” to “aggressive TSA” seems like a rather stretched analogy.

stronglikedan 3y ago

Seems like it is in the USA, if it exists, and mentions it's in a city. It's a pretentious enough idea that it might actually work in a US city.

etothepii 3y ago

This is easily done, in Bermuda Rock Island Cafe is cash only but you can also have an account with them that is run on file cards that you can top up. Since their coffee is the best coffee on the island no one minds the extra hassle.

curiousObject 3y ago
but you can also have an account with them that is run on file cards that you can top up. Is that file card a thing that the customers carry with them? Because: Other businesses could begin accepting those same file cards, and the idea will become even more popular and successful and then… oh…
- etothepii 3y ago
  No the file cards stay at the shop. Since it's a balance written in felt tip pen it would probably be a little too easy to cheat ...

ghaff 3y ago

Cash only isn't unheard of. I carry a little bit with me. But it's pretty rare for something like a cafe, restaurant, etc. and I expect a lot of people don't carry cash especially if they just stick a few cards on the back of their phones. That said, I'm pretty sure this is just an exercise in imagining a very retro sort of establishment. I have a lot of trouble imagining a place like this working.

xur17 3y ago
Yeah, definitely isn't totally unheard of. A restaurant and barbershop near me are both cash only.

hattmall 3y ago

Cash only is very common at a lot of places in the US. It's sort of a thing that signifies quality and affordability. Pretty much all of them have an ATM so it's not really a big deal. It's much faster and places that can make it with those policies are obviously worth visiting.

mvdtnz 3y ago
Those kinds of hole-in-the-wall places in New Zealand are overwhelmingly more like to have a "no cash" policy.
orhmeh09 3y ago
It was the same in Germany when I visited about 10 years ago. Wonder if it's changed?
ck425 3y ago
How is it faster? And why does it signify quality and affordability?
- hattmall 3y ago
  "Here's your bill." "Ok, here's my money." Or you just leave money on the table and go. There's no messing with cards or paper and signing. The back and forth etc. That goes like triple for bars where you just hand over money vs, asking to open or close and putting it in the computer etc. Quality because they are so good they don't need to do worry about alternative forms of payment. Affordability because the price is the price, no fees and they are making so much money they aren't worried about maximizing tickets and table time metrics and all that. It's definitely not going to be a corporate establishment. The owner is probably in the business and they want it to be good because that's where they eat.
- haswell 3y ago
  At least in my experience, I think the perception of quality comes from the fact that these places are the kinds of places that just never modernized beyond cash because they’re already good enough to always be busy or past capacity. There is no incentive to modernize because doing so would not increase business, and not doing so does not decrease business enough to matter. One of the best things about the cash only places I frequent is that they don’t have to deal with delivery services injecting themselves into the business model and consuming kitchen capacity for people not actually present. This leads to faster service overall and at worst the speed of service slows down proportionally to the number of customers at the location at any given point. And usually these places are family run so you’re always seeing the same folks behind the counter and they actually care. All combined, these factors lead to the elevated status that many ascribe to cash only places.

bee_rider 3y ago

I think it is an exercise in creative writing rather than a description of an actual business. Lots of business models work better inside our heads. I can see wanting to rant about cars, they are pretty bad in terms of polluting and killing people (which are objectively pretty bad characteristics, whether or not we’ve looked at the trade offs and decided to get one anyway).

usrusr 3y ago

The business of a cafe is all about identity. The food and drink and service? Once a certain bar of "good enough" is taken any further difference beyond won't make a decisive difference and that good enough bar isn't all that high (I wouldn't be able to run a cafe but plenty of people are). The rest is all in some way about identity. (Hopefully, and edit:) not in terms of who your ancestors were, but in terms of what cafes you like. From slick, perfectly interchangeable interior design showrooms to that hamster cafe in Fleabag, it's all about trying to make a certain slice of the audience feel that "yeah, I totally see myself going to a place like that" connection. If it works, that is if that audience not only exists in sufficient numbers but is also underserved, they did the right thing. Note that they aren't suggesting that people set cars on fire or anything like that, just that people who aren't physically addicted to cars might feel more are home than others.

brianwawok 3y ago

Very very high percent of US is in card. But very rare not to also accept cash, it’s not an insignificant percent of people.