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I'm far more interested in the OS and Apps, that's the thing that's going to make this a success or a flop. Hardware (Apple will almost certainly get this right

I'm far more interested in the OS and Apps, that's the thing that's going to make this a success or a flop. Hardware (Apple will almost certainly get this right) is important, but the actual user experience and use cases that Apple present are what will be the deciding factor. Outside of gaming and industry use AR/VR have felt a little like a solution in search of a problem. I do believe though that the people who work at Apple are capable of solving that problem, finding the use cases that an every day person wants it for. My benchmark for this is my family, they are all different, with different level of interest in tech. If I can see the majority of them having a use for it, being inspired by the UX and marketing, then it will be successful. Until now none of them have any sort of VR kit, but they all have iPhones and Macs. As a slight aside though, new hardware products are very hard for Apple to keep completely under wraps, too many people in the supply chain, too many factories. Software on the other hand they can lock down incredibly well (pun intended). I am somewhat suspicious that they may supprise us at WWDC with their take on generative AI. Now that could be part of the headset, but it's more likely to be part of iOS/macOS and a feature that aims to help them sell more of their existing hardware ranges.

NickC25 3y ago
>I'm far more interested in the OS and Apps, that's the thing that's going to make this a success or a flop. Hardware (Apple will almost certainly get this right) is important, but the actual user experience and use cases that Apple present are what will be the deciding factor. Outside of gaming and industry use AR/VR have felt a little like a solution in search of a problem. I do believe though that the people who work at Apple are capable of solving that problem, finding the use cases that an every day person wants it for. This is my feeling too - I just don't see an immediate usecase for such a device outside of a select few niches, none of which (even combined) move the sales needle for a company of Apple's size. What are people actually going to use this for? I just don't see it - although there could be something as the tech matures in a few years.
- alwillis 3y ago
  This is my feeling too - I just don't see an immediate usecase for such a device outside of a select few niches… As usual, Apple is playing the long game. We should remember that when the iPhone was announced in 2007, Steve Jobs set the goal to get 1% of the cell phone market. In 2007, there was no App Store and the only native apps were what came installed on the device. Apple is laying the groundwork for the future. They’ll sell enough for it to meaningful while the rest of the ecosystem comes together.
  - mdanger007 3y ago
    Start with first principles in hardware. We are primarily visual creatures secondly we are linguistic. If the io for a hardware device were ideal would it not serve these two functions?
  - Hamuko 3y ago
    But the cell phone market was a pretty well-established and sizable market. The AR/VR market is not.
    - alwillis 3y ago
      > But the cell phone market was a pretty well-established and sizable market. The AR/VR market is not. I guess that's one way to look at it. But compared to what was popular when the iPhone was released (Blackberry, Treo, Nokia), it was the iPhone that jumpstarted what became the modern smartphone market we see today. Apple is uniquely positioned to usher in the modern AR/VR era, especially if it's true that iOS apps will run in on the headset. Nobody is better than Apple at capturing the imagination of developers.
- bbor 3y ago
  The use case is replacing laptops - calling it now that we'll be reading Bloomberg articles about the "Headset Class" in our lifetimes :). Definitely don't think apple has a shot in hell of pulling that off in 2023, but I'd love to be surprised.
  - Temporary_31337 3y ago
    I’m pretty sure Apple wants to rule a new product category with better margins and no existing users. With laptops and increasingly phones and tablets most potential customers already have a thing from that category so it’s becoming harder and harder to sell and the profit margins and volumes are becoming smaller. So Apple is desperate to create a new category.
jayd16 3y ago
Honestly, if they can make a device you can comfortably wear for an extended period of time, with that spec sheet, there's a lot of lifestyle shifting things than can be done. You could imagine locking virtual screens and interactive widgets in real space in exciting ways. You could redesign a living room if your main way to watch something is a virtual screen. Virtual cookbook apps you "leave" in the kitchen that you can interact with hand tracking even when you have raw chicken all over your hands. The Hololens never got there but the use cases are there IF it actually hits the hardware mark. If its confined to 20 minute bursts before discomfort sets in like current hardware then its far more niche.
- bbor 3y ago
  HOnest question; would you use a AR headset that wasn't actually see-through but is just streaming video from cameras on the outside? I assumed the answer would be universally no for everyone, but I might be in a bubble. I haaaaate the Oculus Passthrough, personally
  - jayd16 3y ago
    Oh sure. I'm fine with passthrough but the Quest 2 barely scratches the surface and an Oculus Pro shows the potential but it's still very much under the bare minimum. I think it's a feasible path as long as the camera quality is pretty high.
whazor 3y ago
Disagreed, for VR/AR there are many issues that can make the experience uncomfortable or even sickening. The hardware and software are key to making a better device that is actually nice to use. Just putting on a Quest 2 headset is a tiring experience, if the battery is not drained again. Even small details like font rendering can cause headaches.
- ketzo 3y ago
  There are lots of possible hardware issues, yes. But I don't think I'm being a fanboy when I say that if I trust any company to fix physical comfort/usability issues, it's Apple (with a $3,000/device budget).
  - wongarsu 3y ago
    Right, it's Apple, the company that makes the most unergonomic mouse in its price range, and the only wireless mouse I know of that can't be charged while in use. Also the company that once pulled a "if you can't get reception, it's because you are holding your phone wrong" followed by "have you considered a case". We can be certain that it will look great. That's one thing Apple nails every time. For usability and comfort they have their ups and downs like anyone else, and an above average share of "it might not be very usable, but look how sleek it looks".
    - JoeJonathan 3y ago
      I like the mouse. It scrolls well, it’s thinness means it fits well in bag compartments, and I’ve never been bothered by the charging because I only have to charge every few months and use it at a desktop, where I have a lightning cable handy. Maybe if I gamed or something I wouldn’t like it, or if I were working with spreadsheets or something where I’d have to click around a lot, but for reading and writing, it’s great.
    - philistine 3y ago
      Your comment can be turned on its head. It’s exactly because Apple ended up making a mouse that can’t be charged during use that their contribution to VR are vital: they think different. Their mouse has a great battery life that requires charging it sparingly. Your Mac tells you when it needs charging. They thought about the mouse charging problem. They arrived at different answers than the rest of the industry.
waynecochran 3y ago
Supplying content and adding the ability for long range AR (think up to the scale of a par 5 golf hole or a basketball arena) is what I work on at quintar.ai

NickC25 3y ago

>I'm far more interested in the OS and Apps, that's the thing that's going to make this a success or a flop. Hardware (Apple will almost certainly get this right) is important, but the actual user experience and use cases that Apple present are what will be the deciding factor. Outside of gaming and industry use AR/VR have felt a little like a solution in search of a problem. I do believe though that the people who work at Apple are capable of solving that problem, finding the use cases that an every day person wants it for. This is my feeling too - I just don't see an immediate usecase for such a device outside of a select few niches, none of which (even combined) move the sales needle for a company of Apple's size. What are people actually going to use this for? I just don't see it - although there could be something as the tech matures in a few years.

alwillis 3y ago
This is my feeling too - I just don't see an immediate usecase for such a device outside of a select few niches… As usual, Apple is playing the long game. We should remember that when the iPhone was announced in 2007, Steve Jobs set the goal to get 1% of the cell phone market. In 2007, there was no App Store and the only native apps were what came installed on the device. Apple is laying the groundwork for the future. They’ll sell enough for it to meaningful while the rest of the ecosystem comes together.
- mdanger007 3y ago
  Start with first principles in hardware. We are primarily visual creatures secondly we are linguistic. If the io for a hardware device were ideal would it not serve these two functions?
- Hamuko 3y ago
  But the cell phone market was a pretty well-established and sizable market. The AR/VR market is not.
  - alwillis 3y ago
    > But the cell phone market was a pretty well-established and sizable market. The AR/VR market is not. I guess that's one way to look at it. But compared to what was popular when the iPhone was released (Blackberry, Treo, Nokia), it was the iPhone that jumpstarted what became the modern smartphone market we see today. Apple is uniquely positioned to usher in the modern AR/VR era, especially if it's true that iOS apps will run in on the headset. Nobody is better than Apple at capturing the imagination of developers.
bbor 3y ago
The use case is replacing laptops - calling it now that we'll be reading Bloomberg articles about the "Headset Class" in our lifetimes :). Definitely don't think apple has a shot in hell of pulling that off in 2023, but I'd love to be surprised.
- Temporary_31337 3y ago
  I’m pretty sure Apple wants to rule a new product category with better margins and no existing users. With laptops and increasingly phones and tablets most potential customers already have a thing from that category so it’s becoming harder and harder to sell and the profit margins and volumes are becoming smaller. So Apple is desperate to create a new category.

jayd16 3y ago

Honestly, if they can make a device you can comfortably wear for an extended period of time, with that spec sheet, there's a lot of lifestyle shifting things than can be done. You could imagine locking virtual screens and interactive widgets in real space in exciting ways. You could redesign a living room if your main way to watch something is a virtual screen. Virtual cookbook apps you "leave" in the kitchen that you can interact with hand tracking even when you have raw chicken all over your hands. The Hololens never got there but the use cases are there IF it actually hits the hardware mark. If its confined to 20 minute bursts before discomfort sets in like current hardware then its far more niche.

bbor 3y ago
HOnest question; would you use a AR headset that wasn't actually see-through but is just streaming video from cameras on the outside? I assumed the answer would be universally no for everyone, but I might be in a bubble. I haaaaate the Oculus Passthrough, personally
- jayd16 3y ago
  Oh sure. I'm fine with passthrough but the Quest 2 barely scratches the surface and an Oculus Pro shows the potential but it's still very much under the bare minimum. I think it's a feasible path as long as the camera quality is pretty high.

whazor 3y ago

Disagreed, for VR/AR there are many issues that can make the experience uncomfortable or even sickening. The hardware and software are key to making a better device that is actually nice to use. Just putting on a Quest 2 headset is a tiring experience, if the battery is not drained again. Even small details like font rendering can cause headaches.

ketzo 3y ago
There are lots of possible hardware issues, yes. But I don't think I'm being a fanboy when I say that if I trust any company to fix physical comfort/usability issues, it's Apple (with a $3,000/device budget).
- wongarsu 3y ago
  Right, it's Apple, the company that makes the most unergonomic mouse in its price range, and the only wireless mouse I know of that can't be charged while in use. Also the company that once pulled a "if you can't get reception, it's because you are holding your phone wrong" followed by "have you considered a case". We can be certain that it will look great. That's one thing Apple nails every time. For usability and comfort they have their ups and downs like anyone else, and an above average share of "it might not be very usable, but look how sleek it looks".
  - JoeJonathan 3y ago
    I like the mouse. It scrolls well, it’s thinness means it fits well in bag compartments, and I’ve never been bothered by the charging because I only have to charge every few months and use it at a desktop, where I have a lightning cable handy. Maybe if I gamed or something I wouldn’t like it, or if I were working with spreadsheets or something where I’d have to click around a lot, but for reading and writing, it’s great.
  - philistine 3y ago
    Your comment can be turned on its head. It’s exactly because Apple ended up making a mouse that can’t be charged during use that their contribution to VR are vital: they think different. Their mouse has a great battery life that requires charging it sparingly. Your Mac tells you when it needs charging. They thought about the mouse charging problem. They arrived at different answers than the rest of the industry.

waynecochran 3y ago

Supplying content and adding the ability for long range AR (think up to the scale of a par 5 golf hole or a basketball arena) is what I work on at quintar.ai