4 ms·

I’m not sure I understand what you mean (well to be honest if blunt I think I understand and believe it doesn’t really make sense). Android has bsd-derived cor

I’m not sure I understand what you mean (well to be honest if blunt I think I understand and believe it doesn’t really make sense). Android has bsd-derived core utils on top of a souped up Linux kernel. That’s pretty much a textbook Unix-like. Meanwhile Darwin is Unix-certified and a significant part of XNU was originally lifted from BSD. Unless you meant the Java based/NDK development experience? But then you can have the same thing on a Unix machine: once you are removed enough from the OS what it is doesn’t really matter. In a way, I think I agree with you in that I also believe that what’s happening at the lower-level matters less and less for the majority of developers.

pjmlp 3y ago
Try to write a pure, classical, UNIX application and sell it on the Play Store. Without rooting devices. Likewise, try the same on iOS/iPad OS/watchOS. Only C and UNIX/POSIX APIs, nothing else. "Transcending POSIX: The End of an Era?" https://www.usenix.org/publications/loginonline/transcending-posix-end-era https://www.usenix.org/publications/loginonline/transcending... "POSIX has become outdated" https://www.usenix.org/publications/login/fall2016/atlidakis https://www.usenix.org/publications/login/fall2016/atlidakis
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  By that standard, desktop Linux isn't real unix either (X11 isn't POSIX, and Wayland certainly isn't).
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    It’s not, that is why it’s considered Unix-like
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      Okay, then Android can be unix-like too.
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        Try to write full compliant POSIX CLI in Android.
        yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
        I use termux on a daily basis.
rbanffy 3y ago
> what’s happening at the lower-level matters less and less for the majority of developers. Kind of. It constrains what you can do by constraining what you can represent by the semantic model the OS defines. Unix-like OSs think of processes, threads, files, networks, etc. Plan 9 unifies a lot of that - everything is represented as a file system and, in that sense, it frees one to think of networked resources as nothing more than files. Now think about the IBM i, where there is really no distinction between memory and disk storage - everything lives in a single address space. In that sense, the distinction between in-memory structures and files gets blurry. Or we can think of Smalltalk with something like the Roar VM hiding the OS the way Smalltalk always did. The OS limits the approaches we take to solve problems because our programs must fit in their various fixtures to run. We should probably one-up Steve Jobs and "Think Differenter".

pjmlp 3y ago

Try to write a pure, classical, UNIX application and sell it on the Play Store. Without rooting devices. Likewise, try the same on iOS/iPad OS/watchOS. Only C and UNIX/POSIX APIs, nothing else. "Transcending POSIX: The End of an Era?" https://www.usenix.org/publications/loginonline/transcending-posix-end-era https://www.usenix.org/publications/loginonline/transcending... "POSIX has become outdated" https://www.usenix.org/publications/login/fall2016/atlidakis https://www.usenix.org/publications/login/fall2016/atlidakis

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
By that standard, desktop Linux isn't real unix either (X11 isn't POSIX, and Wayland certainly isn't).
- edgyquant 3y ago
  It’s not, that is why it’s considered Unix-like
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    Okay, then Android can be unix-like too.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      Try to write full compliant POSIX CLI in Android.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
        I use termux on a daily basis.

rbanffy 3y ago

> what’s happening at the lower-level matters less and less for the majority of developers. Kind of. It constrains what you can do by constraining what you can represent by the semantic model the OS defines. Unix-like OSs think of processes, threads, files, networks, etc. Plan 9 unifies a lot of that - everything is represented as a file system and, in that sense, it frees one to think of networked resources as nothing more than files. Now think about the IBM i, where there is really no distinction between memory and disk storage - everything lives in a single address space. In that sense, the distinction between in-memory structures and files gets blurry. Or we can think of Smalltalk with something like the Roar VM hiding the OS the way Smalltalk always did. The OS limits the approaches we take to solve problems because our programs must fit in their various fixtures to run. We should probably one-up Steve Jobs and "Think Differenter".