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Those vegetarians doing just fine have usually to be much more careful about what they eat than meat-eaters, so this tells me that meat is not just an unnecessa

Those vegetarians doing just fine have usually to be much more careful about what they eat than meat-eaters, so this tells me that meat is not just an unnecessary luxury. While in the west we eat much more meat that necessary, I don't think that stopping consuming it is the right course of action. There are alternatives to meat, like bugs, but that is not what vegetarians do or preach.

bjoli 3y ago
Look no further than you country's dietary recommendations. They all say something along the lines "eat mostly legumes, whole grains, leafy green vegetables and other vegetables". It probably even tells you to cut down on beef and pork. Sweden's national food agency even has advice directed at vegans saying mostly the same things as it tells meaties, but adds "try to eat an iron source with all food (beans, nuts), supplement with b12 and use enriched milk replacements".
- mrighele 3y ago
  > "eat mostly legumes, whole grains, leafy green vegetables and other vegetables". It probably even tells you to cut down on beef and pork. Yes, as I wrote we tend to eat too much meat in the west. But cutting down on meat consumption and eating mostly vegetables doesn't mean avoiding eating meat at all.
  - bjoli 3y ago
    The thing is, information on how to do it in a safe and healthy way is available, sometimes even from your national food agency. The problem is, I think, that people do not follow the guidelines of the food agencies anyway. If you follow the guidelines but on a vegan diet, making sure to supplement b12, you won't have to do any planning. A healthy dietary pattern looks the same if you don't eat meat. People most often just have to make sure they get enough calories.
jabradoodle 3y ago
It's not an unnecessary luxury because you would be perfectly healthy but have to think a bit more?
tourmalinetaco 3y ago
If your first alternative to meat is bugs then I’m sorry but you need to readjust your idea of what an alternative is. Until I see Bill Gates do as he preaches and chow down on a plate of live insects, me and 6 billion other people won’t even consider it. What I will consider is something like mianjin, which is the gluten from wheat. Cheap, sustainable, protein-rich, and easily flavored to whatever food you want. Plus the leftover starches can be used to replicate other animal products like cheeses and bacon, albeit while being completely empty calories.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  No one is suggesting eating live insects. Around a quarter of the world eats insects each day.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  Gates and crew are giving up private air travel long before I'm eating bugs.
- adhesive_wombat 3y ago
  I don't know why you'd think they'd be live. I don't eat live chickens, fish or cows. Some people eat live oysters, I guess. I have actually eaten insects on more than one occasion (some kind of fried cricket, I think). They weren't especially tasty, but they also weren't bad. Just a fairly unexciting snack taste-wise. I'd say "high" game or strong cheese is far, far more of an acquired taste than they were. Crustaceans are not insects, but insects basically derive from arthropod proto-crustaceans: fundamentally a prawn and a cricket are each roughly the same distance, phylogenetically speaking, from a cow (actually they have 6 legs, not 10, and most are air-breathers, so they're closer in some ways!). Indeed, they can both trigger shellfish allergies. Maybe we're just more used to "weird sea things" being food than "weird land things". Putting aside the obvious aversion to insect morphologies, if they're being processed into some kind of protein meal, I don't really find that any more objectionable than mechanically-recovered meat slurry, which is a major component of lots of food. Which, to be fair, I do already, generally, avoid.
- mrighele 3y ago

bjoli 3y ago

Look no further than you country's dietary recommendations. They all say something along the lines "eat mostly legumes, whole grains, leafy green vegetables and other vegetables". It probably even tells you to cut down on beef and pork. Sweden's national food agency even has advice directed at vegans saying mostly the same things as it tells meaties, but adds "try to eat an iron source with all food (beans, nuts), supplement with b12 and use enriched milk replacements".

mrighele 3y ago
> "eat mostly legumes, whole grains, leafy green vegetables and other vegetables". It probably even tells you to cut down on beef and pork. Yes, as I wrote we tend to eat too much meat in the west. But cutting down on meat consumption and eating mostly vegetables doesn't mean avoiding eating meat at all.
- bjoli 3y ago
  The thing is, information on how to do it in a safe and healthy way is available, sometimes even from your national food agency. The problem is, I think, that people do not follow the guidelines of the food agencies anyway. If you follow the guidelines but on a vegan diet, making sure to supplement b12, you won't have to do any planning. A healthy dietary pattern looks the same if you don't eat meat. People most often just have to make sure they get enough calories.

jabradoodle 3y ago

It's not an unnecessary luxury because you would be perfectly healthy but have to think a bit more?

tourmalinetaco 3y ago

If your first alternative to meat is bugs then I’m sorry but you need to readjust your idea of what an alternative is. Until I see Bill Gates do as he preaches and chow down on a plate of live insects, me and 6 billion other people won’t even consider it. What I will consider is something like mianjin, which is the gluten from wheat. Cheap, sustainable, protein-rich, and easily flavored to whatever food you want. Plus the leftover starches can be used to replicate other animal products like cheeses and bacon, albeit while being completely empty calories.

Symbiote 3y ago
No one is suggesting eating live insects. Around a quarter of the world eats insects each day.
willcipriano 3y ago
Gates and crew are giving up private air travel long before I'm eating bugs.
adhesive_wombat 3y ago
I don't know why you'd think they'd be live. I don't eat live chickens, fish or cows. Some people eat live oysters, I guess. I have actually eaten insects on more than one occasion (some kind of fried cricket, I think). They weren't especially tasty, but they also weren't bad. Just a fairly unexciting snack taste-wise. I'd say "high" game or strong cheese is far, far more of an acquired taste than they were. Crustaceans are not insects, but insects basically derive from arthropod proto-crustaceans: fundamentally a prawn and a cricket are each roughly the same distance, phylogenetically speaking, from a cow (actually they have 6 legs, not 10, and most are air-breathers, so they're closer in some ways!). Indeed, they can both trigger shellfish allergies. Maybe we're just more used to "weird sea things" being food than "weird land things". Putting aside the obvious aversion to insect morphologies, if they're being processed into some kind of protein meal, I don't really find that any more objectionable than mechanically-recovered meat slurry, which is a major component of lots of food. Which, to be fair, I do already, generally, avoid.
mrighele 3y ago