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To invoke soy's pricing in the Western world (let alone the UK) and not also acknowledge that it contains phytoestrogens is disingenuous because this affects th

To invoke soy's pricing in the Western world (let alone the UK) and not also acknowledge that it contains phytoestrogens is disingenuous because this affects the pricing of it due to volume sold. Aside from tofu causing me intolerable heartburn, I also wouldn't eat it because of the phytoestrogens. Quorn vegetarian mince is cheap, no hormones, antibiotics or fat. Real low-fat meat mince is £1 more per kg than Quorn mince. No soy either, it's mycoprotein. Do we need cultured meat when Quorn is satisfactory for most people who don't eat meat for whatever reason?

ChoGGi 3y ago
> Aside from tofu causing me intolerable heartburn, I also wouldn't eat it because of the phytoestrogens. Would you be against coffee and tea as well, or is the dose low enough to not worry about? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23141692_Phytoestrogen_Content_of_Beverages_Nuts_Seeds_and_Oils https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23141692_Phytoestro...
- hammyhavoc 3y ago
  I'm not "against" anything, but I only drink water in 2023. Furthermore, beer has a far higher amount than coffee. FWIW, it's only some herbal teas that contain phytoestrogens. A more compelling "gotcha" would have been invoking something like broccoli, which is higher again, and actually higher than natto (fermented soybeans) per 100g.
adhesive_wombat 3y ago
> this affects the pricing of it due to volume sold. And yet the Chinese supermarket 1km from Tesco can sell it at £2.40/kg, and at Tesco it starts at over £6. It's clearly possible. As for Quorn, I used to eat tons of that as I had a vegetarian parent. It's "OK", but if we're doing anecdata, it does cause digestive problems for many people. As I'm not vegetarian, I don't feel the need to use meat replacements. If I'm eating something else it's because I want to. As far as I can tell, non-exclusive consumption of tofu is unlikely to be a major issue in terms of health effects of phytoestrogens (at least compared to what I would say are my top health risks: sedentary job, then probably occasional cured meats and overall salt intake). > Do we need cultured meat when Quorn is satisfactory for most people who don't eat meat for whatever reason? Exactly my original point with a substitution of a different protein source.
bjoli 3y ago
There are quite few high quality human studies showing phytoestrogens to have negative effects, and quite a few showing positive effects? Isoflavones (the one most common in soy) has not been shown to affect testosterone levels or fertility, while having lots of positive effects. The estrogen activity of phytoestrogens is, as a bonus, very low.

ChoGGi 3y ago

> Aside from tofu causing me intolerable heartburn, I also wouldn't eat it because of the phytoestrogens. Would you be against coffee and tea as well, or is the dose low enough to not worry about? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23141692_Phytoestrogen_Content_of_Beverages_Nuts_Seeds_and_Oils https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23141692_Phytoestro...

hammyhavoc 3y ago
I'm not "against" anything, but I only drink water in 2023. Furthermore, beer has a far higher amount than coffee. FWIW, it's only some herbal teas that contain phytoestrogens. A more compelling "gotcha" would have been invoking something like broccoli, which is higher again, and actually higher than natto (fermented soybeans) per 100g.

adhesive_wombat 3y ago

> this affects the pricing of it due to volume sold. And yet the Chinese supermarket 1km from Tesco can sell it at £2.40/kg, and at Tesco it starts at over £6. It's clearly possible. As for Quorn, I used to eat tons of that as I had a vegetarian parent. It's "OK", but if we're doing anecdata, it does cause digestive problems for many people. As I'm not vegetarian, I don't feel the need to use meat replacements. If I'm eating something else it's because I want to. As far as I can tell, non-exclusive consumption of tofu is unlikely to be a major issue in terms of health effects of phytoestrogens (at least compared to what I would say are my top health risks: sedentary job, then probably occasional cured meats and overall salt intake). > Do we need cultured meat when Quorn is satisfactory for most people who don't eat meat for whatever reason? Exactly my original point with a substitution of a different protein source.

bjoli 3y ago

There are quite few high quality human studies showing phytoestrogens to have negative effects, and quite a few showing positive effects? Isoflavones (the one most common in soy) has not been shown to affect testosterone levels or fertility, while having lots of positive effects. The estrogen activity of phytoestrogens is, as a bonus, very low.