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That's not accurate. They "acquire" it all, then "collect" it later from their databases upon request. So-called "incidental collection" is totally fair game fo

That's not accurate. They "acquire" it all, then "collect" it later from their databases upon request. So-called "incidental collection" is totally fair game for exploitation, defrauding courts, and perverting the course of justice. For US citizens abroad, any filtering is obviously insufficient, as they couldn't generally know your foreign phone number or residential IP address belong to a US citizen. That doesn't even get into the government's claimed authorities under EO12333, or exactly what "communication facilities" they have obtained secret bulk collection FISA warrants for (likely VPNs, US Tor exits, etc.), or data received about US persons from collaborating foreign intelligence agencies. I wasn't referring to the Federal Aviation Administration, and you'd know that if you were seriously engaged with this issue. It's not Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA), it's Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 Amendments Act of 2008 (FAA). It's also important to note the distinction between the seizure of communications, which happens at massive scale without individualized suspicion, and the search of those communications when they "request" it, as you put it. The Constitution prohibits both unreasonable searches and seizures. Considering Sen. Wyden has long sat on the SSCI, I assume his warning yesterday was about a new, different secret interpretation than the few court documents that were made public by Snowden et al. a decade ago.

lern_too_spel 3y ago
> That's not accurate. They "acquire" it all, then "collect" it later from their databases upon request. is fully hackable. This is conspiracy theory nonsense. If it were happening, Snowden would have leaked documents saying so. Instead, his leaked documents said this is only happening in a handful of war zones where the US controls the telecommunications systems. > The Constitution prohibits both unreasonable searches and seizures. It's good that you understand this basic fact. Then why do you think what you claimed is happening, despite not having any evidence to support your claim?
- smolder 3y ago
  > This is conspiracy theory nonsense. No. This publicly goes back to Clapper telling congress that the NSA doesn't "collect" data on Americans. The lie was excused on the grounds that "collection" isn't them saving the data, but rather querying it later.
  - lern_too_spel 3y ago
    > This publicly goes back to Clapper telling congress that the NSA doesn't "collect" data on Americans. The lie was excused on the grounds that "collection" isn't them saving the data, but rather querying it later. More conspiracy theory nonsense. The lie was that they don't collect any data on Americans, when they did collect phone metadata. The reason he made that mistake was that the previous question was about making dossiers of Americans, which they do not do, not having the content of any Americans' communications.
    - smolder 3y ago
      You're wrong. Go read about it in this article by Bruce Schneier. And don't accuse people of being conspiracy theorists when you haven't checked your facts. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/why-the-nsas-defense-of-mass-data-collection-makes-no-sense/280715/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/why-the...
      - lern_too_spel 3y ago
        You're wrong. The only person who claimed that the NSA doesn't believe it has collected data until it looks at it is Schneier in this article. No US government agency has ever made this claim because it is obviously false, and none of Snowden's leaked documents claim the NSA has collected American communications. https://apnews.com/article/business-33a88feb083ea35515de3c73e3d854ad https://apnews.com/article/business-33a88feb083ea35515de3c73... explains that Clapper was previously being asked about collecting actual communication data of foreigners (Section 702), while this question jumped to "any data" about Americans, which would include the telephone metadata collected by Section 215. This admission that Clapper does consider the defunct phone metadata program to be collection was made 7 months before Schneider wrote that article, so he should have known better. > Don't accuse people of being conspiracy theorists when you haven't checked your facts. I will continue to call people conspiracy theorists when they say hundreds of conspirators in the US government are doing something obviously illegal without any evidence, especially when someone who leaked other programs could have leaked that evidence but did not.

lern_too_spel 3y ago

> That's not accurate. They "acquire" it all, then "collect" it later from their databases upon request. is fully hackable. This is conspiracy theory nonsense. If it were happening, Snowden would have leaked documents saying so. Instead, his leaked documents said this is only happening in a handful of war zones where the US controls the telecommunications systems. > The Constitution prohibits both unreasonable searches and seizures. It's good that you understand this basic fact. Then why do you think what you claimed is happening, despite not having any evidence to support your claim?

smolder 3y ago
> This is conspiracy theory nonsense. No. This publicly goes back to Clapper telling congress that the NSA doesn't "collect" data on Americans. The lie was excused on the grounds that "collection" isn't them saving the data, but rather querying it later.
- lern_too_spel 3y ago
  > This publicly goes back to Clapper telling congress that the NSA doesn't "collect" data on Americans. The lie was excused on the grounds that "collection" isn't them saving the data, but rather querying it later. More conspiracy theory nonsense. The lie was that they don't collect any data on Americans, when they did collect phone metadata. The reason he made that mistake was that the previous question was about making dossiers of Americans, which they do not do, not having the content of any Americans' communications.
  - smolder 3y ago
    You're wrong. Go read about it in this article by Bruce Schneier. And don't accuse people of being conspiracy theorists when you haven't checked your facts. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/why-the-nsas-defense-of-mass-data-collection-makes-no-sense/280715/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/why-the...
    - lern_too_spel 3y ago
      You're wrong. The only person who claimed that the NSA doesn't believe it has collected data until it looks at it is Schneier in this article. No US government agency has ever made this claim because it is obviously false, and none of Snowden's leaked documents claim the NSA has collected American communications. https://apnews.com/article/business-33a88feb083ea35515de3c73e3d854ad https://apnews.com/article/business-33a88feb083ea35515de3c73... explains that Clapper was previously being asked about collecting actual communication data of foreigners (Section 702), while this question jumped to "any data" about Americans, which would include the telephone metadata collected by Section 215. This admission that Clapper does consider the defunct phone metadata program to be collection was made 7 months before Schneider wrote that article, so he should have known better. > Don't accuse people of being conspiracy theorists when you haven't checked your facts. I will continue to call people conspiracy theorists when they say hundreds of conspirators in the US government are doing something obviously illegal without any evidence, especially when someone who leaked other programs could have leaked that evidence but did not.