4 ms·

On the other side of the coin, Japan has an extremely low crime rate. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to judge their system to be bad.

hombre_fatal 3y ago
Maybe they have a low crime rate for reasons that have nothing to do with prosecution.
- mattigames 3y ago
  No, it definitely has a lot to do with that, but they are not as benovelent as the comment you are answering to is implying.
  - hombre_fatal 3y ago
    Why would benevolence be the only reason a culture might commit less crime?
  - huuhee3 3y ago
    IMO Japanese culture and lower level of individualism has a lot to do with the low crime rate. That's the main reason why they don't tolerate much bad behaviour in the first place, and have a justice system which reflects that.
    - mattigames 3y ago
      For a very particular definition of "tolerate" that values appareances over actual justice, or at least that's the case when talking about sexual assault that goes completely unpunished: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-women-harassment-comments-factb-idUSKCN1IP089 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-women-harassment-co...
toyg 3y ago
This is what happens when you 1) institutionalise crime syndicates, and 2) maintain a massive territorial presence. Yakuza keep the peace at night, police keep the peace during the day; and there's a police booth (and a Yakuza joint) every few blocks. That means a 24/7 guarantee that, if you fuck with anything, you'll meet speedy (and pretty painful) "justice" before you can say "I want a phone call". It's not pretty but it mostly works. At that point, the rest of the system is basically a formality. The dark side of this is obviously that, if you're a "false positive" (i.e. an innocent caught up in stuff), you're screwed, because the police won't allow your case to ruin their "perfect score" - so guilty you must be.
- mahathu 3y ago
  How do the Yakuza keep peace at night?
  - toyg 3y ago
    They effectively act as security inside and outside nightspots.
- warning26 3y ago
  ...what? Japan has recently been cracking down pretty hard on the Yakuza.
  - toyg 3y ago
    As they do periodically. It's a balancing act, with complex dynamics, ebbs, and flows.
TheGigaChad 3y ago
[dead]
squarefoot 3y ago
Did you know that in Japan the Yakuza is legal? Very easy to obtain those totally meaningless numbers with that background.
- warning26 3y ago
  You can't sign almost any contract in Japan without certifying that you're not a yakuza member, which makes it impossible to do things such as sign up for mobile phone service or even attend a concert.
  - krapp 3y ago
    So racketeering, extortion, arson, kidnapping, human trafficking, drugs, rape, torture, vandalism, child porn and murder are all fine but lying on a form is a bridge too far for the yakuza?
    - glandium 3y ago
      > but lying on a form is a bridge too far for the yakuza? It's not that it's too far compared to the other stuff, but they also have a hard time catching higher ups with this other stuff, since they don't do it themselves. So it's actually a very common way to catch them. One from the Yamaguchi clan was caught recently for having subscribed for a point card in a supermarket.
      - warning26 3y ago
        Exactly. It’s the same principle of how the US finally got Al Capone for tax evasion, of all things.
clove 3y ago
Is their low crime the direct result of that system or are there other reasons? If it's the system, then should we not expect Japanese living abroad to engage in more crime? Are Japanese-Americans more likely to engage in crime than their ancestors?
dghughes 3y ago
I think there is a lot more to it than we Western societies know of. Take castes for example Japan has castes or "Burakumin" even now in 2023. Anyone who deals with "unclean" job like slaughterhouse, undertaker, obviously Japanese mob (which ironically was created due to the discrimination). Supposedly (and highly likely) the people who were tasked with cleaning up in the radioactive areas of the Fukushima Daiichi disaster were all or labelled Burakumin people. Then there is Japanese blood personality types which is yet another form of discrimination, lord help you if you're type B. The indigenous residents of Japan Ainu are also discriminated against.

hombre_fatal 3y ago

Maybe they have a low crime rate for reasons that have nothing to do with prosecution.

mattigames 3y ago
No, it definitely has a lot to do with that, but they are not as benovelent as the comment you are answering to is implying.
- hombre_fatal 3y ago
  Why would benevolence be the only reason a culture might commit less crime?
- huuhee3 3y ago
  IMO Japanese culture and lower level of individualism has a lot to do with the low crime rate. That's the main reason why they don't tolerate much bad behaviour in the first place, and have a justice system which reflects that.
  - mattigames 3y ago
    For a very particular definition of "tolerate" that values appareances over actual justice, or at least that's the case when talking about sexual assault that goes completely unpunished: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-women-harassment-comments-factb-idUSKCN1IP089 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-women-harassment-co...

toyg 3y ago

This is what happens when you 1) institutionalise crime syndicates, and 2) maintain a massive territorial presence. Yakuza keep the peace at night, police keep the peace during the day; and there's a police booth (and a Yakuza joint) every few blocks. That means a 24/7 guarantee that, if you fuck with anything, you'll meet speedy (and pretty painful) "justice" before you can say "I want a phone call". It's not pretty but it mostly works. At that point, the rest of the system is basically a formality. The dark side of this is obviously that, if you're a "false positive" (i.e. an innocent caught up in stuff), you're screwed, because the police won't allow your case to ruin their "perfect score" - so guilty you must be.

mahathu 3y ago
How do the Yakuza keep peace at night?
- toyg 3y ago
  They effectively act as security inside and outside nightspots.
warning26 3y ago
...what? Japan has recently been cracking down pretty hard on the Yakuza.
- toyg 3y ago
  As they do periodically. It's a balancing act, with complex dynamics, ebbs, and flows.

TheGigaChad 3y ago

[dead]

squarefoot 3y ago

Did you know that in Japan the Yakuza is legal? Very easy to obtain those totally meaningless numbers with that background.

warning26 3y ago
You can't sign almost any contract in Japan without certifying that you're not a yakuza member, which makes it impossible to do things such as sign up for mobile phone service or even attend a concert.
- krapp 3y ago
  So racketeering, extortion, arson, kidnapping, human trafficking, drugs, rape, torture, vandalism, child porn and murder are all fine but lying on a form is a bridge too far for the yakuza?
  - glandium 3y ago
    > but lying on a form is a bridge too far for the yakuza? It's not that it's too far compared to the other stuff, but they also have a hard time catching higher ups with this other stuff, since they don't do it themselves. So it's actually a very common way to catch them. One from the Yamaguchi clan was caught recently for having subscribed for a point card in a supermarket.
    - warning26 3y ago
      Exactly. It’s the same principle of how the US finally got Al Capone for tax evasion, of all things.

clove 3y ago

Is their low crime the direct result of that system or are there other reasons? If it's the system, then should we not expect Japanese living abroad to engage in more crime? Are Japanese-Americans more likely to engage in crime than their ancestors?

dghughes 3y ago

I think there is a lot more to it than we Western societies know of. Take castes for example Japan has castes or "Burakumin" even now in 2023. Anyone who deals with "unclean" job like slaughterhouse, undertaker, obviously Japanese mob (which ironically was created due to the discrimination). Supposedly (and highly likely) the people who were tasked with cleaning up in the radioactive areas of the Fukushima Daiichi disaster were all or labelled Burakumin people. Then there is Japanese blood personality types which is yet another form of discrimination, lord help you if you're type B. The indigenous residents of Japan Ainu are also discriminated against.