4 ms·

I really don't understand how this company fell so far from grace. Their product was excellent. Don't get me wrong, I've read the history and understood how the

I really don't understand how this company fell so far from grace. Their product was excellent. Don't get me wrong, I've read the history and understood how they failed to pivot from hardware Lisp machines, but they have completely vanished without even chugging along as a legacy systems provider (think OS/2). Does any of their influence survive in modern hardware or software design? I hardly ever see Genera cited.

fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
I believe there is still a minimal group of people providing support to some legacy customers. From what I've heard they have an emulator that originally ran on Alpha but was recently ported to x86 and then to Apple Silicon ( https://twitter.com/gmpalter/status/1350663314968350723?s=20 https://twitter.com/gmpalter/status/1350663314968350723?s=20 ). IP issues I think are sort of unclear and so the legal release of the software is tricky, if not impossible.
- mepian 3y ago
  The intellectual property of Symbolics is currently owned by John C. Mallery, the developer of CL-HTTP aka the first US White House web server. He was interested in making it officially free, but unfortunately has gone silent about two years ago, according to the person who ported Genera to x86 and Apple Silicon: https://hachyderm.io/@gmpalter/109553414024392523 https://hachyderm.io/@gmpalter/109553414024392523
  - eschaton 3y ago
    If he acquired it from Topping’s estate, I’d like to see proof that Toppings actually paid for it.
  - gumby 3y ago
    I talk to him from time to time so he isn’t silent on every topic.
    - mepian 3y ago
      Could you please try to probe him on this topic?
convolvatron 3y ago
They were really expensive. Many of their customers were first wave AI shop, so when they shut down that was alot of revenue. I think sgi took the graphics market from them
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  The 2D paint production was never taken over by SGI. That was essentially a clone of Quantel Paintbox which was locked into its own custom hardware but survived the 90s.
  - lispm 3y ago
    The Symbolics graphics software was bought by Nichimen. Nichimen ported it to SGI/IRIX and Windows NT, using Franz Inc.'s Allegro Common Lisp. It was commercially available as N-World. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-World
paulpauper 3y ago
Cheap PCs , CPUs, graphics chips, and software made many of these companies obsolete by the mid 90s.
coldtea 3y ago
>ithout even chugging along as a legacy systems provider (think OS/2). Haven't the same happened to SGI, DEC(VAX), and OS/2 itself? All much bigger successes at their time than Symbolics has ever been.
- cbm-vic-20 3y ago
  DEC basically ended up getting commoditized by Linux; they still had momentum when moving from VAX to Alpha. In the early 90s they were able to migrate many of their VAX/VMS users to Alpha/OpenVMS and their Ultrix users to OSF-1, but by the end of the 90s, many of their ISVs had released Linux versions of their products. SGI at least had niche applications that let them hang on independently for a bit longer. DECs offerings really couldn't compete with that, and there was noting Compaq/HP could do about it.
  - nico 3y ago
    This is what is happening to Google now with AI
rini17 3y ago
Emacs was heavily inspired by the Lisp machine and is still widely used today. However, I tried to start using it several times and gave up in frustration, it just won't fit me. Various vi-compatible modes make it even worse. And I love Lisp but without Emacs I feel like second class citizen.

fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago

I believe there is still a minimal group of people providing support to some legacy customers. From what I've heard they have an emulator that originally ran on Alpha but was recently ported to x86 and then to Apple Silicon ( https://twitter.com/gmpalter/status/1350663314968350723?s=20 https://twitter.com/gmpalter/status/1350663314968350723?s=20 ). IP issues I think are sort of unclear and so the legal release of the software is tricky, if not impossible.

mepian 3y ago
The intellectual property of Symbolics is currently owned by John C. Mallery, the developer of CL-HTTP aka the first US White House web server. He was interested in making it officially free, but unfortunately has gone silent about two years ago, according to the person who ported Genera to x86 and Apple Silicon: https://hachyderm.io/@gmpalter/109553414024392523 https://hachyderm.io/@gmpalter/109553414024392523
- eschaton 3y ago
  If he acquired it from Topping’s estate, I’d like to see proof that Toppings actually paid for it.
- gumby 3y ago
  I talk to him from time to time so he isn’t silent on every topic.
  - mepian 3y ago
    Could you please try to probe him on this topic?

convolvatron 3y ago

They were really expensive. Many of their customers were first wave AI shop, so when they shut down that was alot of revenue. I think sgi took the graphics market from them

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
The 2D paint production was never taken over by SGI. That was essentially a clone of Quantel Paintbox which was locked into its own custom hardware but survived the 90s.
- lispm 3y ago
  The Symbolics graphics software was bought by Nichimen. Nichimen ported it to SGI/IRIX and Windows NT, using Franz Inc.'s Allegro Common Lisp. It was commercially available as N-World. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-World

paulpauper 3y ago

Cheap PCs , CPUs, graphics chips, and software made many of these companies obsolete by the mid 90s.

coldtea 3y ago

>ithout even chugging along as a legacy systems provider (think OS/2). Haven't the same happened to SGI, DEC(VAX), and OS/2 itself? All much bigger successes at their time than Symbolics has ever been.

cbm-vic-20 3y ago
DEC basically ended up getting commoditized by Linux; they still had momentum when moving from VAX to Alpha. In the early 90s they were able to migrate many of their VAX/VMS users to Alpha/OpenVMS and their Ultrix users to OSF-1, but by the end of the 90s, many of their ISVs had released Linux versions of their products. SGI at least had niche applications that let them hang on independently for a bit longer. DECs offerings really couldn't compete with that, and there was noting Compaq/HP could do about it.
- nico 3y ago
  This is what is happening to Google now with AI

rini17 3y ago

Emacs was heavily inspired by the Lisp machine and is still widely used today. However, I tried to start using it several times and gave up in frustration, it just won't fit me. Various vi-compatible modes make it even worse. And I love Lisp but without Emacs I feel like second class citizen.