5 ms·

This is a bit off-topic, but sadly, I have to agree. I AM a paying Kagi user, but the new limits have hit me extremely hard. I'm now paying twice as much per mo

by Daunk 3y ago

This is a bit off-topic, but sadly, I have to agree. I AM a paying Kagi user, but the new limits have hit me extremely hard. I'm now paying twice as much per month and still almost hitting my monthly limit. I really don't want Kagi to go away but I think they have to adjust their prices if they want to keep thier customers around, me included

cmer 3y ago
Same here. I was a customer for a long time and loved the service, but having to watch my “search spend” and constantly going over limits is really annoying. I ended up cancelling but I really wish I didn’t. Personally I’d like to see an ad-supported, or partially ad-supported version that isn’t evil. The way Google started out with relevant ads in the sidebar or a single relevant ad at the top is acceptable in my opinion if it means bring the cost way down for the end user and ensuring sustainability for the company. I don’t think asking users to shell out $10, $20, $30 per month for search is a viable long term model that’ll ever appeal to the masses.
- colordrops 3y ago
  It's probably not possible to be both ad supported and not evil. They are at odds with each other.
- bruce511 3y ago
  I'm not a Kagi user (yet) but I think you're missing the point. In order to display just one ad, the engine has to start tracking you. The converse, just display a random ad, is not valuable to advertizers and they won't pay for it. Equally, the kagi user base is so small that even if I -wanted- to put an ad on Kagi, I'd get very few impressions per month. Lastly given that the user base is self-selecting as a group paying money not to see ads, my ads will likely get no clicks. Thus, imo, you can be subscription supported, or ad supported but not both.
  - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
    >In order to display just one ad, the engine has to start tracking you. I don't think so. Selling ads based on keywords in search terms has always been a viable strategy. But you're right about Kagi's current user base. Selling yourself as an ad-free alternative and then introducing ads sounds difficult to say the least.
  - giantrobot 3y ago
    > In order to display just one ad, the engine has to start tracking you. They most certainly do not. Ads can be contextual for the search like AdWords was. Instead of selling their users they could sell their content.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      At least you'd want to track user language. There are many words that are spelled the same in different languages but have completely different meanings. Just one example.
bruce511 3y ago
To be clear, there aren't limits. You pay 1.5c per search. You can choose a level to get some bulk-search rates. Which thus leads to a value proposition for you. Would you pay 1.5c to have this search Ad free? Personally I think the pricing model is presented incorrectly - it would be better to charge per search, with say a $5 minimum and a $25 maximum.
- easytiger 3y ago
  > Which thus leads to a value proposition for you. Would you pay 1.5c to have this search Ad free? Why does it matter when 95% of the links you click on those results will carry a dozen adverts? You are paying for a minor level of practical self righteousness
  - sshine 3y ago
    It matters to me because I believe the results are organically rated, i.e. nobody paid my search provider directly for top results. With Google you become used to skip the first paid results that visually differ every so slightly — so much so that less technically inclined people, when I observe them, will click the paid results not knowing the difference. I believe that, currently, Kagi is not building a profile of me based on my searches. Basically, if I’m searching for something, and I’m not looking to buy something, the search is a lot more honest and a lot less stressful. Ads on other sites can be adblocked, this is orthogonal; you can block ads on Google, but I just don’t trust that the algorithms are in my best interest, because I didn’t pay for anything.
    - easytiger 3y ago
      How does any of that effect the fact that the results will probably be the same, taking you to the same page as bing or google, which in turn are ad supported?
    - NerdiDotOrg 3y ago
      Personally I always click the ads so people get charged for them and it reduces their CRO, which may cause them to not pay Google for more ads. Then I find my result That said. I have used Google less than 20x since subscribing to GPT4. AI killed Google for me and I've been using it for half my life.

by Daunk 3y ago

cmer 3y ago

Same here. I was a customer for a long time and loved the service, but having to watch my “search spend” and constantly going over limits is really annoying. I ended up cancelling but I really wish I didn’t. Personally I’d like to see an ad-supported, or partially ad-supported version that isn’t evil. The way Google started out with relevant ads in the sidebar or a single relevant ad at the top is acceptable in my opinion if it means bring the cost way down for the end user and ensuring sustainability for the company. I don’t think asking users to shell out $10, $20, $30 per month for search is a viable long term model that’ll ever appeal to the masses.

colordrops 3y ago
It's probably not possible to be both ad supported and not evil. They are at odds with each other.
bruce511 3y ago
I'm not a Kagi user (yet) but I think you're missing the point. In order to display just one ad, the engine has to start tracking you. The converse, just display a random ad, is not valuable to advertizers and they won't pay for it. Equally, the kagi user base is so small that even if I -wanted- to put an ad on Kagi, I'd get very few impressions per month. Lastly given that the user base is self-selecting as a group paying money not to see ads, my ads will likely get no clicks. Thus, imo, you can be subscription supported, or ad supported but not both.
- fauigerzigerk 3y ago
  >In order to display just one ad, the engine has to start tracking you. I don't think so. Selling ads based on keywords in search terms has always been a viable strategy. But you're right about Kagi's current user base. Selling yourself as an ad-free alternative and then introducing ads sounds difficult to say the least.
- giantrobot 3y ago
  > In order to display just one ad, the engine has to start tracking you. They most certainly do not. Ads can be contextual for the search like AdWords was. Instead of selling their users they could sell their content.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    At least you'd want to track user language. There are many words that are spelled the same in different languages but have completely different meanings. Just one example.

bruce511 3y ago

To be clear, there aren't limits. You pay 1.5c per search. You can choose a level to get some bulk-search rates. Which thus leads to a value proposition for you. Would you pay 1.5c to have this search Ad free? Personally I think the pricing model is presented incorrectly - it would be better to charge per search, with say a $5 minimum and a $25 maximum.

easytiger 3y ago
> Which thus leads to a value proposition for you. Would you pay 1.5c to have this search Ad free? Why does it matter when 95% of the links you click on those results will carry a dozen adverts? You are paying for a minor level of practical self righteousness
- sshine 3y ago
  It matters to me because I believe the results are organically rated, i.e. nobody paid my search provider directly for top results. With Google you become used to skip the first paid results that visually differ every so slightly — so much so that less technically inclined people, when I observe them, will click the paid results not knowing the difference. I believe that, currently, Kagi is not building a profile of me based on my searches. Basically, if I’m searching for something, and I’m not looking to buy something, the search is a lot more honest and a lot less stressful. Ads on other sites can be adblocked, this is orthogonal; you can block ads on Google, but I just don’t trust that the algorithms are in my best interest, because I didn’t pay for anything.
  - easytiger 3y ago
    How does any of that effect the fact that the results will probably be the same, taking you to the same page as bing or google, which in turn are ad supported?
  - NerdiDotOrg 3y ago
    Personally I always click the ads so people get charged for them and it reduces their CRO, which may cause them to not pay Google for more ads. Then I find my result That said. I have used Google less than 20x since subscribing to GPT4. AI killed Google for me and I've been using it for half my life.