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When I order anything off Amazon, which is more and more rare these days, I wish there was a shipping option of “let the workers go pee” or “donate 30 minutes o

When I order anything off Amazon, which is more and more rare these days, I wish there was a shipping option of “let the workers go pee” or “donate 30 minutes off task to a worker” or “don’t penalize the driver”. I don’t need the speed. There are just some items that you can only get at Amazon. But overall, with the number of fakes, the treatment of employees, the complete shit show of site design and browsing tools, not to mention the dark patterns and other nonsense, shopping on Amazon is a guilty chore, one that I take only as a last resort. Good for these people for getting some workplace victories, but it would be so much better if Amazon gave in willingly and actually ran the warehouses and delivery operations with an ounce of compassion, even if it came at the cost of some speed slowdown. Maybe the button option on the website should read “choose to get your item faster but three employees will have to hold their pee or go in a soda bottle”. Let’s see how many people would choose that.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
andrei_says_ 3y ago
I appreciate your writing this. Unfortunately we (and more importantly the workers) are facing an entity which does not perceive compassion or dignity - similar to how we don’t see ultraviolet light. What can be measured - is measured - is profit and efficiency. There’s no equivalent to Bhutan’s Gross National Happiness Index. The price of infinitely growing profits is the constant increase of agony for the workers and the enshittification of the service and product - because the profit needs to come from somewhere. Someone said that every Amazon order starts an invisible Rube Goldberg machine of human suffering which delivers a thing to our doors. Yes, what if we made that machine visible? What if we had a choice to alleviate some of the suffering, some of the time? Would the explicit admission of the fact that we participate in sadistic treatment of human beings and the choice to diminish some strangers’ agony… help? Don’t know but would be one hell of a social experiment. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_Happiness https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_Happiness https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/?amp https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/?amp
- Haga 3y ago
  [dead]
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
  They can measure some approximation of happiness by doing regular, anonymous surveys. They can count the bottles of pee which are most definitely not a sign of happiness, or the # or injuries.
  - thewildginger 3y ago
    Thought experiment that radicalized my thoughts on our economic system: with all the data being collected on people about their behavior, habits, quality of life, demographic differences etc, we could probably know the reality acutely of many societal ails, and this find better ways to fix them. Instead it is being used to effectively continue human suffering so a few can be powerful and feel special.
- sieabahlpark 3y ago
  [dead]
anonylizard 3y ago
“let the workers go pee” or “donate 30 minutes off task to a worker” You mean: 1. Donate 15 minutes, which at a Amazon warehouse rate about $20/h, is about $5. 2. Donate 30 minutes, or about $10. Worker speed affects both 1. Latency (How fast you get it), but also 2. Throughput (How much packages Amazon sends per worker/hour) Are you seriously willing to donate that much on a regular basis? Do you think ordinary people will want to do so? If so, such a button makes sense.
- beezle 3y ago
  The reality is decent work conditions should be built in and any "cost" spread across all customers (and heaven forbid reduce Amazon's margins a tiny amount).
  - matttproud 3y ago
    Maybe the executives can have catheters installed on themselves first since the opportunity cost of their going to the bathroom is so damn high. You first, buddy.
- migf 3y ago
  Spread across 60 pick items an hour...
- mindslight 3y ago
  The times I've experienced "prime membership" [0], Amazon generally offers "no rush shipping credits" of $1 towards "digital content" [1]. Obviously their cost basis for that is much lower than the face value. But assuming 50% discounting, 100% labor cost overhead, and using the 60 packages/hour figure in a sibling comment, only 20% of customers would have to choose the option for a worker to get a 15 minute break every 2 hours. The popularity would also be a great indicator of how many customers resent their practices, before they simply disappear. [0] free trials of course, because why would I pay to subject myself to a sunk cost fallacy? [1] aka stuff that you're better off torrenting
- kshacker 3y ago
  I think you are looking at much higher rates. The question is not what it cost to them, but what they will make from that much time. They may pay the worker 20 dollars an hour, but that worker may be earning them 100 or 200 or even 1000 an hour, and that is Amazon's loss if they get an hour's break. I am not an amazon employee, and this is standard in every industry ... the employee salary is just a small part of what it costs an employer. The corporate office, the worker's office (or warehouse), the management overhead etc., all add up to what it costs the company per hour of employee work and that is the bare minimum we should plan to donate (per above formula), and then what I mentioned is the profit side of things which would be even higher.
mavelikara 3y ago
> When I order anything off Amazon, which is more and more rare these days, I wish there was a shipping option of The best way to signal this is to not buy from Amazon and instead buy from elsewhere.
- Anthony-G 3y ago
  The poster you’re replying to already said that it’s something they only do as a last resort – when purchasing “items that you can only get at Amazon”. Personally, I haven’t bought anything from or via Amazon since 2010 but if there was no good alternative solution, I probably would.
danielscrubs 3y ago
That puts the blame on the customers. “You didn’t check the box, not our responsibility “. What’s worse is that it gives a leg up to the immoral in the competition that is life. No, this is something that has to be fixed at a political level.
laserdancepony 3y ago
But that would reduce shareholder value. If the employees want to be treated well, they should just become shareholders aswell.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

andrei_says_ 3y ago

I appreciate your writing this. Unfortunately we (and more importantly the workers) are facing an entity which does not perceive compassion or dignity - similar to how we don’t see ultraviolet light. What can be measured - is measured - is profit and efficiency. There’s no equivalent to Bhutan’s Gross National Happiness Index. The price of infinitely growing profits is the constant increase of agony for the workers and the enshittification of the service and product - because the profit needs to come from somewhere. Someone said that every Amazon order starts an invisible Rube Goldberg machine of human suffering which delivers a thing to our doors. Yes, what if we made that machine visible? What if we had a choice to alleviate some of the suffering, some of the time? Would the explicit admission of the fact that we participate in sadistic treatment of human beings and the choice to diminish some strangers’ agony… help? Don’t know but would be one hell of a social experiment. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_Happiness https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_Happiness https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/?amp https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/?amp

Haga 3y ago
[dead]
8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
They can measure some approximation of happiness by doing regular, anonymous surveys. They can count the bottles of pee which are most definitely not a sign of happiness, or the # or injuries.
- thewildginger 3y ago
  Thought experiment that radicalized my thoughts on our economic system: with all the data being collected on people about their behavior, habits, quality of life, demographic differences etc, we could probably know the reality acutely of many societal ails, and this find better ways to fix them. Instead it is being used to effectively continue human suffering so a few can be powerful and feel special.
sieabahlpark 3y ago
[dead]

anonylizard 3y ago

“let the workers go pee” or “donate 30 minutes off task to a worker” You mean: 1. Donate 15 minutes, which at a Amazon warehouse rate about $20/h, is about $5. 2. Donate 30 minutes, or about $10. Worker speed affects both 1. Latency (How fast you get it), but also 2. Throughput (How much packages Amazon sends per worker/hour) Are you seriously willing to donate that much on a regular basis? Do you think ordinary people will want to do so? If so, such a button makes sense.

beezle 3y ago
The reality is decent work conditions should be built in and any "cost" spread across all customers (and heaven forbid reduce Amazon's margins a tiny amount).
- matttproud 3y ago
  Maybe the executives can have catheters installed on themselves first since the opportunity cost of their going to the bathroom is so damn high. You first, buddy.
migf 3y ago
Spread across 60 pick items an hour...
mindslight 3y ago
The times I've experienced "prime membership" [0], Amazon generally offers "no rush shipping credits" of $1 towards "digital content" [1]. Obviously their cost basis for that is much lower than the face value. But assuming 50% discounting, 100% labor cost overhead, and using the 60 packages/hour figure in a sibling comment, only 20% of customers would have to choose the option for a worker to get a 15 minute break every 2 hours. The popularity would also be a great indicator of how many customers resent their practices, before they simply disappear. [0] free trials of course, because why would I pay to subject myself to a sunk cost fallacy? [1] aka stuff that you're better off torrenting
kshacker 3y ago
I think you are looking at much higher rates. The question is not what it cost to them, but what they will make from that much time. They may pay the worker 20 dollars an hour, but that worker may be earning them 100 or 200 or even 1000 an hour, and that is Amazon's loss if they get an hour's break. I am not an amazon employee, and this is standard in every industry ... the employee salary is just a small part of what it costs an employer. The corporate office, the worker's office (or warehouse), the management overhead etc., all add up to what it costs the company per hour of employee work and that is the bare minimum we should plan to donate (per above formula), and then what I mentioned is the profit side of things which would be even higher.

mavelikara 3y ago

> When I order anything off Amazon, which is more and more rare these days, I wish there was a shipping option of The best way to signal this is to not buy from Amazon and instead buy from elsewhere.

Anthony-G 3y ago
The poster you’re replying to already said that it’s something they only do as a last resort – when purchasing “items that you can only get at Amazon”. Personally, I haven’t bought anything from or via Amazon since 2010 but if there was no good alternative solution, I probably would.

danielscrubs 3y ago

That puts the blame on the customers. “You didn’t check the box, not our responsibility “. What’s worse is that it gives a leg up to the immoral in the competition that is life. No, this is something that has to be fixed at a political level.

laserdancepony 3y ago

But that would reduce shareholder value. If the employees want to be treated well, they should just become shareholders aswell.