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Items 1 to 5 and a general demand to be in a place drive homelessness. I dont belive housing costs really have much to do with it. Since the 70s places like S

Items 1 to 5 and a general demand to be in a place drive homelessness. I dont belive housing costs really have much to do with it. Since the 70s places like SF were destinations and cultures people flocked to without being prepared for. Detroit and Mississippi dont have a homeless problem because desperate I'll prepared youth are not going to these places to try to rediscover themsleves. The neauvous destinations like some cities in Texas will be the next hot spots as people flock there hoping to be saved. Some of the difference is that Texas likely does not give a rat's ass about them unlike the hotspots in the 70s to 90s. I lived in SF in a dining room on a 1 bedroom apartment. People can make SF work. My wife moved to SF from the midwest with 100 bucks in her wallet and no job prospects. She was one hairs breath from being homeless. That had nothing to do with the availability of housing and everything to do with the romance of the deatination. Austin will get it's due in time if it continues to be the rosey destination.

whitemary 3y ago
> I dont belive housing costs really have much to do with it. I find it difficult to believe that a conscious human being wrote this, and much less actually believes it. I frankly think you're just completely full of shit.
- porkbeer 3y ago
  Why not point out why you disagree instead of just insulting someone? If you want to change minds, or even be tolereted in conversation, this is not the way to do it.
  - whitemary 3y ago
    Such opinions only come from out of touch rich people. They don't come from people whose minds can be changed about them with a reasonable effort. It's simply not worth even trying. These people are extremely rare anyhow, except for on venture capital forums like this one.
    - uberman 3y ago
      Change my mind then. I have family that works on a Reservation. I have family that have been homeless not just almost homeless. I have relatives in the service and friends who have been assaulted even murdered on the street. I have relatives on disability and relatives on food stamps. I have relatives who can never afford to retire and relatives who live in government housing. Am I personally rich? Now yes but both my parents died before I finished college and rather than any kind of inheritance, their final proceedings cost me my life's savings. I lived in someone's livingroom and in someone else's dining room to avoid being homeless myself. I rode a used bike to work even in the SF rainy seasons as I could not afford an alternative. I feel I have a good sense of the cycle of poverty and dependence from my personal lived experiences. Saying lack of housing causes homelessness is like saying lack of life causes death. It is a tautology that glosses over the real issues. If we shipped homeless Californians to Detroit where houses can be purchased by bartering a phone or sit abandoned are you suggesting the housing crisis would be solved?
    - uberman 3y ago
      I'll give you four examples from my family two who ended up homeless and ultimately dead as a result and two who did not. My dad and his brother both served in the Vietnam War. His brother came back with mental health issues that lead to substance abuse issue. My dad did not. We tried for years to get my uncle off the street including paying for apartments. He would live in one about two weeks before walking away from it declaring that when he stayed put for too long, the government would be able to find him. He ultimately died in a fight over a lighter. My wife's parents were both teachers with masters degrees however her mom had substance abuse problems and ultimately they divorced over them. Not long after, she was fired for being drunk in the classroom. We moved her anyplace she wanted to live in CA, AZ and TX paid for her housing and gave her an allowance. She was unable to quit using and unwilling to go to treatment. She could not hold down a job and was constantly being evicted for her actions including building a campfire inside her apartment. Again, we paid all the bills. She ultimately ODed. Two sets a relatives with similar experiences. Two sets of dead homeless family members who had essentially free housing. Without addressing what I believe are the true root causes of homeless, substance abuse and mental health we cannot solve the homelessness crisis. I want to be clear, I know there are some people who are homeless or essentially homeless and just need a safe reliable bridget to self sufficiency and that bridge housing could be an important part of that. My wife being a perfect case. The chronically homeless need much more than more affordable housing. When people suggest me me that all the homeless need is for us to build more affordable housing it makes me want to vomit frankly. The chronically homeless can have trouble keeping a phone let alone an atm card or a bank account, a job or even a PO box. They are never going to assemble the down payment for even a used mobile home. So I believe I am quite "in touch" with reality.
- cynicalsecurity 3y ago
  No one argues the housing costs are getting higher, but at the same time it's not the cause people become homeless. Lower the housing costs tomorrow by 5 and the amount of homeless people won't lower even by 2.
gammarator 3y ago
From the article: > And in San Francisco… 70% of its homeless population previously lived in the city and a whopping 92% had previously lived in California.
- uberman 3y ago
  I'm not sure how that is relevant here. My wife lived in SF for a month and was next to homeless. She lived in CA for an additional month before that.
bastawhiz 3y ago
Your arguments aren't even supported by the data. Why do Hawaii and Alaska find themselves in places with high levels of homelessness? How do you even get to either of those places without a significant up-front investment? You're not exactly hitchhiking to Juno. Similarly, by your logic, how does Illinois have such low homelessness per capita? Chicago is romanticized plenty. Moreover, as the post points out, the majority of people who are homeless in cities like SF have been there for a very long time and had been there before becoming homeless. The anecdote about your wife would suggest that she would have been well in the minority.
- uberman 3y ago
  I dont know anything about Hawaii but Alaska and many other places with high Native American populations have high homelessness because substance abuse, mental health issues and poverty are a plague on them. Homelessness is a problem on Pine Ridge in South Dakota where you can place down a used double wide for 10k. I appreciate that I am not an expert in this area and that my wife and her group of friends living on the edge of homelessness could be an anomaly but my lived experience of SF tells me otherwise.

whitemary 3y ago

> I dont belive housing costs really have much to do with it. I find it difficult to believe that a conscious human being wrote this, and much less actually believes it. I frankly think you're just completely full of shit.

porkbeer 3y ago
Why not point out why you disagree instead of just insulting someone? If you want to change minds, or even be tolereted in conversation, this is not the way to do it.
- whitemary 3y ago
  Such opinions only come from out of touch rich people. They don't come from people whose minds can be changed about them with a reasonable effort. It's simply not worth even trying. These people are extremely rare anyhow, except for on venture capital forums like this one.
  - uberman 3y ago
    Change my mind then. I have family that works on a Reservation. I have family that have been homeless not just almost homeless. I have relatives in the service and friends who have been assaulted even murdered on the street. I have relatives on disability and relatives on food stamps. I have relatives who can never afford to retire and relatives who live in government housing. Am I personally rich? Now yes but both my parents died before I finished college and rather than any kind of inheritance, their final proceedings cost me my life's savings. I lived in someone's livingroom and in someone else's dining room to avoid being homeless myself. I rode a used bike to work even in the SF rainy seasons as I could not afford an alternative. I feel I have a good sense of the cycle of poverty and dependence from my personal lived experiences. Saying lack of housing causes homelessness is like saying lack of life causes death. It is a tautology that glosses over the real issues. If we shipped homeless Californians to Detroit where houses can be purchased by bartering a phone or sit abandoned are you suggesting the housing crisis would be solved?
  - uberman 3y ago
    I'll give you four examples from my family two who ended up homeless and ultimately dead as a result and two who did not. My dad and his brother both served in the Vietnam War. His brother came back with mental health issues that lead to substance abuse issue. My dad did not. We tried for years to get my uncle off the street including paying for apartments. He would live in one about two weeks before walking away from it declaring that when he stayed put for too long, the government would be able to find him. He ultimately died in a fight over a lighter. My wife's parents were both teachers with masters degrees however her mom had substance abuse problems and ultimately they divorced over them. Not long after, she was fired for being drunk in the classroom. We moved her anyplace she wanted to live in CA, AZ and TX paid for her housing and gave her an allowance. She was unable to quit using and unwilling to go to treatment. She could not hold down a job and was constantly being evicted for her actions including building a campfire inside her apartment. Again, we paid all the bills. She ultimately ODed. Two sets a relatives with similar experiences. Two sets of dead homeless family members who had essentially free housing. Without addressing what I believe are the true root causes of homeless, substance abuse and mental health we cannot solve the homelessness crisis. I want to be clear, I know there are some people who are homeless or essentially homeless and just need a safe reliable bridget to self sufficiency and that bridge housing could be an important part of that. My wife being a perfect case. The chronically homeless need much more than more affordable housing. When people suggest me me that all the homeless need is for us to build more affordable housing it makes me want to vomit frankly. The chronically homeless can have trouble keeping a phone let alone an atm card or a bank account, a job or even a PO box. They are never going to assemble the down payment for even a used mobile home. So I believe I am quite "in touch" with reality.
cynicalsecurity 3y ago
No one argues the housing costs are getting higher, but at the same time it's not the cause people become homeless. Lower the housing costs tomorrow by 5 and the amount of homeless people won't lower even by 2.

gammarator 3y ago

From the article: > And in San Francisco… 70% of its homeless population previously lived in the city and a whopping 92% had previously lived in California.

uberman 3y ago
I'm not sure how that is relevant here. My wife lived in SF for a month and was next to homeless. She lived in CA for an additional month before that.

bastawhiz 3y ago

Your arguments aren't even supported by the data. Why do Hawaii and Alaska find themselves in places with high levels of homelessness? How do you even get to either of those places without a significant up-front investment? You're not exactly hitchhiking to Juno. Similarly, by your logic, how does Illinois have such low homelessness per capita? Chicago is romanticized plenty. Moreover, as the post points out, the majority of people who are homeless in cities like SF have been there for a very long time and had been there before becoming homeless. The anecdote about your wife would suggest that she would have been well in the minority.

uberman 3y ago
I dont know anything about Hawaii but Alaska and many other places with high Native American populations have high homelessness because substance abuse, mental health issues and poverty are a plague on them. Homelessness is a problem on Pine Ridge in South Dakota where you can place down a used double wide for 10k. I appreciate that I am not an expert in this area and that my wife and her group of friends living on the edge of homelessness could be an anomaly but my lived experience of SF tells me otherwise.