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> Mostly the opposition to enabling killing yourself is ideological, and seems to be particularly prevalent among people with strong religious opinions. Kevin

> Mostly the opposition to enabling killing yourself is ideological, and seems to be particularly prevalent among people with strong religious opinions. Kevin Yuill is an atheist. If you want the non-religious argument against state-sanctioned suicide read him (though, of course, as an individual he doesn't cover every anti-euthanasia atheist's point of view). I'm sorry for your particular situation.

denton-scratch 3y ago
> non-religious argument against state-sanctioned suicide I don't like the word "suicide" at all. It has strong connotations of sin and criminality. The phrase "state-sanctioned suicide" implies that the state has active involvement in someone taking their own life. What I'm talking about is the state not actively interfering to make it hard for someone to decide for themself how and when they die. "My particular situation" is nothing; I'm fine, and whatever health problems I have are the result of a life of self-indulgence and dissolution.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  Suicide literally just means killing oneself: https://www.etymonline.com/word/suicide https://www.etymonline.com/word/suicide The connotations of sin and criminality are in the eye of the beholder. > What I'm talking about is the state not actively interfering to make it hard for someone to decide for themself how and when they die. But it does by regulating it. By deciding which suicides, or requests for euthanasia[1] are legitimate, and which aren't. If there were no barriers or gatekeeping in place a large chunk of the populace would kill themselves as teenagers. [1]- incidentally, the word "euthanasia" strikes terror and horror in me. I much prefer suicide, as the grammatical locus of control is on the person killing themself, not some amorphous other.
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    Suicide remains a sin in the eyes of the Catholic Church (the largest Christian denomination); and attempting it was a crime, at least in the UK (where I live) until 1961. People still speak of "committing" suicide, like committing murder. I can't think of any other legal act that you can "commit". [Edit] Wrong! Adultery, for example, is legal, and is something you commit. So I suppose that in general, you can "commit" it if it's a sin, or more generally something you shouldn't do.
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      Sure. People also use the phrase "committing a traffic infraction". "Committing to each other in marriage" "Committing to a college" "Committing money to a cause" "Committing to God by accepting Jesus as your lord and savior" :D I totally understand that there's baggage to this word (suicide). Given the totality of the ending of life I feel that highlighting all of these connotations with the word "suicide" is a good thing to do, as a minor, first-line form of gatekeeping. Nature is red in tooth and claw. While there are many situations in which it is okay to look at life-and-death with rose-colored glasses, when push comes to shove it is important to view the world without blinders.
      - pseudalopex 3y ago
        Commit and commit to have different meanings. You do not say people committed marriage.
        anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        This is a good point. "During his life he committed many good deeds." It is a much rarer usage, and typically less specific. Possibly grammatically incorrect as you'd generally substitute "performed" for "committed" in such a case.
        robotresearcher 3y ago
        You can be in a committed marriage.
        pseudalopex 3y ago
        You can be in a committed marriage if you committed to marriage. You do not say people committed marriage.
- mthoms 3y ago
  The expression "committing suicide" has those connotations and is considered taboo by some. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? The alternative suggestion is "death by suicide" which is both technically correct and devoid of any implication of criminality/sin. Of course, you're free to think what you want about the word, I'm just relaying something I've read. (I agree with the rest of your point, I just wanted to mention that specific nuance about the terminology)
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    I was alive when attempting suicide was still a crime (obviously, you can't be prosecuted for succeeding!). For me, the word "suicide" has connotations of wrongdoing, like "homicide" and "patricide". Younger generations may not be so aware of those connotations. For me, "commit" doesn't have connotations of wrongdoing, unless it's a matter of a bad commit that breaks the build. "Death by suicide" doesn't name an act; it's a verdict.
    - mthoms 3y ago
      Interesting. I'm from the same era and have the opposite opinion. To me the word "commit" implies legality, "death by suicide" seems factual and without judgement. The Centre for Suicide Prevention seems to agree. Not only in this article (https://www.suicideinfo.ca/local_resource/suicideandlanguage/ https://www.suicideinfo.ca/local_resource/suicideandlanguage...) but also in their usage of "suicide" in the very name of the organization. What word would suggest in place of "suicide"?

denton-scratch 3y ago

> non-religious argument against state-sanctioned suicide I don't like the word "suicide" at all. It has strong connotations of sin and criminality. The phrase "state-sanctioned suicide" implies that the state has active involvement in someone taking their own life. What I'm talking about is the state not actively interfering to make it hard for someone to decide for themself how and when they die. "My particular situation" is nothing; I'm fine, and whatever health problems I have are the result of a life of self-indulgence and dissolution.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
Suicide literally just means killing oneself: https://www.etymonline.com/word/suicide https://www.etymonline.com/word/suicide The connotations of sin and criminality are in the eye of the beholder. > What I'm talking about is the state not actively interfering to make it hard for someone to decide for themself how and when they die. But it does by regulating it. By deciding which suicides, or requests for euthanasia[1] are legitimate, and which aren't. If there were no barriers or gatekeeping in place a large chunk of the populace would kill themselves as teenagers. [1]- incidentally, the word "euthanasia" strikes terror and horror in me. I much prefer suicide, as the grammatical locus of control is on the person killing themself, not some amorphous other.
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  Suicide remains a sin in the eyes of the Catholic Church (the largest Christian denomination); and attempting it was a crime, at least in the UK (where I live) until 1961. People still speak of "committing" suicide, like committing murder. I can't think of any other legal act that you can "commit". [Edit] Wrong! Adultery, for example, is legal, and is something you commit. So I suppose that in general, you can "commit" it if it's a sin, or more generally something you shouldn't do.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    Sure. People also use the phrase "committing a traffic infraction". "Committing to each other in marriage" "Committing to a college" "Committing money to a cause" "Committing to God by accepting Jesus as your lord and savior" :D I totally understand that there's baggage to this word (suicide). Given the totality of the ending of life I feel that highlighting all of these connotations with the word "suicide" is a good thing to do, as a minor, first-line form of gatekeeping. Nature is red in tooth and claw. While there are many situations in which it is okay to look at life-and-death with rose-colored glasses, when push comes to shove it is important to view the world without blinders.
    - pseudalopex 3y ago
      Commit and commit to have different meanings. You do not say people committed marriage.
      - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        This is a good point. "During his life he committed many good deeds." It is a much rarer usage, and typically less specific. Possibly grammatically incorrect as you'd generally substitute "performed" for "committed" in such a case.
      - robotresearcher 3y ago
        You can be in a committed marriage.
        pseudalopex 3y ago
        You can be in a committed marriage if you committed to marriage. You do not say people committed marriage.
mthoms 3y ago
The expression "committing suicide" has those connotations and is considered taboo by some. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? The alternative suggestion is "death by suicide" which is both technically correct and devoid of any implication of criminality/sin. Of course, you're free to think what you want about the word, I'm just relaying something I've read. (I agree with the rest of your point, I just wanted to mention that specific nuance about the terminology)
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  I was alive when attempting suicide was still a crime (obviously, you can't be prosecuted for succeeding!). For me, the word "suicide" has connotations of wrongdoing, like "homicide" and "patricide". Younger generations may not be so aware of those connotations. For me, "commit" doesn't have connotations of wrongdoing, unless it's a matter of a bad commit that breaks the build. "Death by suicide" doesn't name an act; it's a verdict.
  - mthoms 3y ago
    Interesting. I'm from the same era and have the opposite opinion. To me the word "commit" implies legality, "death by suicide" seems factual and without judgement. The Centre for Suicide Prevention seems to agree. Not only in this article (https://www.suicideinfo.ca/local_resource/suicideandlanguage/ https://www.suicideinfo.ca/local_resource/suicideandlanguage...) but also in their usage of "suicide" in the very name of the organization. What word would suggest in place of "suicide"?