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How is it different from any digital payment? Many European countries and the US has been doing digital transactions for like 2 decades now. How was it not auth

How is it different from any digital payment? Many European countries and the US has been doing digital transactions for like 2 decades now. How was it not authoritarian then but suddenly when the Asian people do it, it's a way to track everything people does and not the simplest explanation which is it makes transactions easier?

stavros 3y ago
It's authoritarian here as well, who said the opposite? Digital payments are a privacy nightmare.
aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> Many European countries and the US has been doing digital transactions for like 2 decades now. How was it not authoritarian Many German people are still deeply distrusting of digital money transactions (keep in mind that there were two dictatorial regimes on German soil in the 20th century, of which one only ceased to exist little more than 30 years ago). > How was it not authoritarian then but suddenly when the Asian people do it, it's a way to track everything people does These people typically rather think that Asians should not make the same mistake (ignoring dangerous surveillance aspects).
photochemsyn 3y ago
India outlawed the usage of any bill larger than the equivalent of a $US 5 (500-rupee and up) in 2016, which was intended to force people into the digital payments system. This is much more coercive than the Euro-US approach. For an overview and pro/con arguments in the global government-led war on cash: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/021816/why-governments-want-eliminate-cash.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/021816/why-g... It's also an attempt to collect a percentage of all transactions, which will be funneled to the usual suspects, here's what led to this: > "NEW YORK, September 19, 2012 — The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Citi, Ford Foundation, Omidyar Network, U.N. Capital Development Fund (UNCDF), U. S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and Visa Inc. announced today the launch of the Better Than Cash Alliance. The new initiative will call on governments, the development community and the private sector to adopt the use of electronic payments..."
- samarthr1 3y ago
  Please do remember that the 500 and 1000 rupee notes were promptly replaced with a new 500 and 2000 rupee note series. Moreover, it was not made illegal, rather it was no longer considered legal tender. A far cry from making it illegal. There are on the other hand limits on the size of cash only transactions without a PAN Card (tax documentation) Recently, the reserve bank has announced that it is going to withdraw the 2000 rupee note. That means that it will no longer print or issue via banks 2000 rupee notes. They will still remain legal tender.
  - vivegi 3y ago
    > They will still remain legal tender. Until Sept 30th 2023. An individual may exchange up to 10 notes (INR 20,000 per day) for cash between now and Sept 30th or deposit it into their account (no limit -- but be prepared to answer the taxman if there are enquiries next year on your tax return seeking the source of funds for the deposit).
  - harrymit907 3y ago
    How is "illegal" and "no longer considered legal tender" different? Regardless of the intentions, I don't see how banning people from using currency notes that they legally owned is not dictatorial. Why is using cash deemed guilty before even having any evidence.
    - nine_k 3y ago
      Illegal: you get arrested for possession. Not legal tender: you cannot pay taxes with it, and generally cannot use in monetary transactions.
      - harrymit907 3y ago
        Agree with the definitions. I guess the OP meant it like "not allowed to use" rather than actually getting arrested for possession.
  - rvba 3y ago
AndrewKemendo 3y ago
It was then, and now that we know how easily it is to abuse anyone following that lead must tacitly accept that it will be abused similarly unless explicitly implemented not to - which isn’t the case here. It’s just another extension of “we have to do this cause everyone else is and if we don’t we’ll be more vulnerable” which is from what I can tell the root of all evil.
1024core 3y ago
And every non-citizen visitor to the US gets fingerprinted and photographed. How's that for "land of the free", eh? And while we're at it: every phone call in the US gets recorded and stored. That's what that big datacenter in Utah is for.
- masfuerte 3y ago
  But it's not spying if we don't listen to it!
- nine_k 3y ago
  It's the land of the free, not the land of the unidentified! Even so, the extent to which living in the US is possible without various documents, and the lack of a unified national ID, makes the US a much milder environment in this regard than most of Europe. Yes, even healthcare: if you show some employment or other income, they will agree to ignore the absence of an SSN, for instance.
  - 1024core 3y ago
    > and the lack of a unified national ID Clearly you haven't heard of Real ID: https://www.dhs.gov/real-id https://www.dhs.gov/real-id
FlyingSnake 3y ago
As a Berliner: I would be fine to share my data and see ads if I get UPI in exchange
- SanjayMehta 3y ago
  There are no ads. There aren't even transaction fees, for now.
y-c-o-m-b 3y ago
> but suddenly when the Asian people do it As a "brown person", I resent this attempt at weaponizing racism just for the benefit of making your argument. Not only does it make your argument look petty and weak, but it actually damages the real efforts to battle true racism in the US. Please stop.
- unmole 3y ago
  > As a "brown person", I resent this attempt at weaponizing racism just for the benefit of making your argument. Pointing out double standards and hypocrisy is not weaponising racism. > but it actually damages the real efforts to battle true racism in the US. Why is this something an Asians in Asia should concern themselves with?
cuteboy19 3y ago
I've used both the US and Indian versions and the US version is pretty much stuck 20 years behind. It's very very bad in terms of UX and security
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
>> US has been doing digital transactions for like 2 decades now Yeah, just recently did a digital transaction in the US (ACH). Took 2 weeks for money to arrive.

stavros 3y ago

It's authoritarian here as well, who said the opposite? Digital payments are a privacy nightmare.

aleph_minus_one 3y ago

> Many European countries and the US has been doing digital transactions for like 2 decades now. How was it not authoritarian Many German people are still deeply distrusting of digital money transactions (keep in mind that there were two dictatorial regimes on German soil in the 20th century, of which one only ceased to exist little more than 30 years ago). > How was it not authoritarian then but suddenly when the Asian people do it, it's a way to track everything people does These people typically rather think that Asians should not make the same mistake (ignoring dangerous surveillance aspects).

photochemsyn 3y ago

India outlawed the usage of any bill larger than the equivalent of a $US 5 (500-rupee and up) in 2016, which was intended to force people into the digital payments system. This is much more coercive than the Euro-US approach. For an overview and pro/con arguments in the global government-led war on cash: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/021816/why-governments-want-eliminate-cash.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/021816/why-g... It's also an attempt to collect a percentage of all transactions, which will be funneled to the usual suspects, here's what led to this: > "NEW YORK, September 19, 2012 — The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Citi, Ford Foundation, Omidyar Network, U.N. Capital Development Fund (UNCDF), U. S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and Visa Inc. announced today the launch of the Better Than Cash Alliance. The new initiative will call on governments, the development community and the private sector to adopt the use of electronic payments..."

samarthr1 3y ago
Please do remember that the 500 and 1000 rupee notes were promptly replaced with a new 500 and 2000 rupee note series. Moreover, it was not made illegal, rather it was no longer considered legal tender. A far cry from making it illegal. There are on the other hand limits on the size of cash only transactions without a PAN Card (tax documentation) Recently, the reserve bank has announced that it is going to withdraw the 2000 rupee note. That means that it will no longer print or issue via banks 2000 rupee notes. They will still remain legal tender.
- vivegi 3y ago
  > They will still remain legal tender. Until Sept 30th 2023. An individual may exchange up to 10 notes (INR 20,000 per day) for cash between now and Sept 30th or deposit it into their account (no limit -- but be prepared to answer the taxman if there are enquiries next year on your tax return seeking the source of funds for the deposit).
- harrymit907 3y ago
  How is "illegal" and "no longer considered legal tender" different? Regardless of the intentions, I don't see how banning people from using currency notes that they legally owned is not dictatorial. Why is using cash deemed guilty before even having any evidence.
  - nine_k 3y ago
    Illegal: you get arrested for possession. Not legal tender: you cannot pay taxes with it, and generally cannot use in monetary transactions.
    - harrymit907 3y ago
      Agree with the definitions. I guess the OP meant it like "not allowed to use" rather than actually getting arrested for possession.
- rvba 3y ago

AndrewKemendo 3y ago

It was then, and now that we know how easily it is to abuse anyone following that lead must tacitly accept that it will be abused similarly unless explicitly implemented not to - which isn’t the case here. It’s just another extension of “we have to do this cause everyone else is and if we don’t we’ll be more vulnerable” which is from what I can tell the root of all evil.

1024core 3y ago

And every non-citizen visitor to the US gets fingerprinted and photographed. How's that for "land of the free", eh? And while we're at it: every phone call in the US gets recorded and stored. That's what that big datacenter in Utah is for.

masfuerte 3y ago
But it's not spying if we don't listen to it!
nine_k 3y ago
It's the land of the free, not the land of the unidentified! Even so, the extent to which living in the US is possible without various documents, and the lack of a unified national ID, makes the US a much milder environment in this regard than most of Europe. Yes, even healthcare: if you show some employment or other income, they will agree to ignore the absence of an SSN, for instance.
- 1024core 3y ago
  > and the lack of a unified national ID Clearly you haven't heard of Real ID: https://www.dhs.gov/real-id https://www.dhs.gov/real-id

FlyingSnake 3y ago

As a Berliner: I would be fine to share my data and see ads if I get UPI in exchange

SanjayMehta 3y ago
There are no ads. There aren't even transaction fees, for now.

y-c-o-m-b 3y ago

> but suddenly when the Asian people do it As a "brown person", I resent this attempt at weaponizing racism just for the benefit of making your argument. Not only does it make your argument look petty and weak, but it actually damages the real efforts to battle true racism in the US. Please stop.

unmole 3y ago
> As a "brown person", I resent this attempt at weaponizing racism just for the benefit of making your argument. Pointing out double standards and hypocrisy is not weaponising racism. > but it actually damages the real efforts to battle true racism in the US. Why is this something an Asians in Asia should concern themselves with?

cuteboy19 3y ago

I've used both the US and Indian versions and the US version is pretty much stuck 20 years behind. It's very very bad in terms of UX and security

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago

>> US has been doing digital transactions for like 2 decades now Yeah, just recently did a digital transaction in the US (ACH). Took 2 weeks for money to arrive.