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Success is personal. If your goal is to increase the amount of wealth for everyone then go for it. With that said, remember the following. While the economy is

Success is personal. If your goal is to increase the amount of wealth for everyone then go for it. With that said, remember the following. While the economy is not zero sum and we can increase the amount of wealth in the world, power is zero sum. Power is finite and very scarce. You can create tremendous wealth and later find out it ended in the hand of a single person. And that person is not willing to share.

TheCleric 3y ago
So would you have considered Bernie Madoff successful?
- barelyauser 3y ago
  If his goal was to amass personal wealth at the expensive of others. But again, it depends on the person. A cab driver that barely makes ends meet can be successful while a multimillionaire isn't. If you wake up and do what you want to do, you are successful.
- chirau 3y ago
  He was successful, then failed. The two are not mutually exclusive. He clearly set out to make a lot of money with his scheme, and he did that successfully. Then he failed.
- throw9away6 3y ago
  Absolutely the man was a pioneer of the graft that is payment for order flow. His biggest mistake was living too long if he had died a year or 2 earlier he would have gotten away with it
bbor 3y ago
On your deathbed, is “I made so much money and earned so much power” really going to be satisfying? As opposed to family/charity/invention/politics/etc. Not a rhetorical question, honestly curious what you think
- barelyauser 3y ago
  I like making money and exercising power. I like the feeling of getting what I want when I want. To help people (family/charity) you need money, resources and health (being able to). Politics is fundamental at all times, meaning human relations. My wish is to die without a single penny in the bank. As I get older it gets clear how much time is worth. We have so little time to actually do what we want before we get too old.
- chirau 3y ago
  For me, it will suffice. I grew up without it and I made it and my family will enjoy it. All else is secondary.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  You mean my cryogenic freezing chamber, and that's not cheap.
anonymouskimmer 3y ago
> power is zero sum. Power is finite and very scarce. As technology[1] increases power increases. It is social capital to convince others that is zero sum (holding the number of people constant). [1] - and here I mean all technology, not what's commonly called 'tech' today. > You can create tremendous wealth and later find out it ended in the hand of a single person. And that person is not willing to share. Having a lot of money doesn't mean people have to do business with them. Undoubtedly some will, but you don't have to. It also doesn't prevent others from doing business with made-up currencies (e.g. Ithaca Hours, cryptocurrencies) or through barter.
- barelyauser 3y ago
  Note the fact that I did not mention money. I mentioned wealth. Holding a huge bag of money is useless because as you stated, people can now choose to use another currency and I lose all my money, it becomes worthless. Or people can work for each other, without money. But what if I own all the productive land? What if I own a corporation that manufactures a product you depend on? This is wealth.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    > But what if I own all the productive land? What if I own a corporation that manufactures a product you depend on? This is wealth. If people won't take your money to defend your wealth, then your wealth belongs to whoever takes it. It's only the rule of law that allows material wealth to exist. This is a very strong force, and is effectively insurmountable in most circumstances in lands with well-functioning governments. But things like the following do, very rarely, happen even in them: https://morbidology.com/the-town-that-got-away-with-murder/ https://morbidology.com/the-town-that-got-away-with-murder/

TheCleric 3y ago

So would you have considered Bernie Madoff successful?

barelyauser 3y ago
If his goal was to amass personal wealth at the expensive of others. But again, it depends on the person. A cab driver that barely makes ends meet can be successful while a multimillionaire isn't. If you wake up and do what you want to do, you are successful.
chirau 3y ago
He was successful, then failed. The two are not mutually exclusive. He clearly set out to make a lot of money with his scheme, and he did that successfully. Then he failed.
throw9away6 3y ago
Absolutely the man was a pioneer of the graft that is payment for order flow. His biggest mistake was living too long if he had died a year or 2 earlier he would have gotten away with it

bbor 3y ago

On your deathbed, is “I made so much money and earned so much power” really going to be satisfying? As opposed to family/charity/invention/politics/etc. Not a rhetorical question, honestly curious what you think

barelyauser 3y ago
I like making money and exercising power. I like the feeling of getting what I want when I want. To help people (family/charity) you need money, resources and health (being able to). Politics is fundamental at all times, meaning human relations. My wish is to die without a single penny in the bank. As I get older it gets clear how much time is worth. We have so little time to actually do what we want before we get too old.
chirau 3y ago
For me, it will suffice. I grew up without it and I made it and my family will enjoy it. All else is secondary.
hotpotamus 3y ago
You mean my cryogenic freezing chamber, and that's not cheap.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago

> power is zero sum. Power is finite and very scarce. As technology[1] increases power increases. It is social capital to convince others that is zero sum (holding the number of people constant). [1] - and here I mean all technology, not what's commonly called 'tech' today. > You can create tremendous wealth and later find out it ended in the hand of a single person. And that person is not willing to share. Having a lot of money doesn't mean people have to do business with them. Undoubtedly some will, but you don't have to. It also doesn't prevent others from doing business with made-up currencies (e.g. Ithaca Hours, cryptocurrencies) or through barter.

barelyauser 3y ago
Note the fact that I did not mention money. I mentioned wealth. Holding a huge bag of money is useless because as you stated, people can now choose to use another currency and I lose all my money, it becomes worthless. Or people can work for each other, without money. But what if I own all the productive land? What if I own a corporation that manufactures a product you depend on? This is wealth.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  > But what if I own all the productive land? What if I own a corporation that manufactures a product you depend on? This is wealth. If people won't take your money to defend your wealth, then your wealth belongs to whoever takes it. It's only the rule of law that allows material wealth to exist. This is a very strong force, and is effectively insurmountable in most circumstances in lands with well-functioning governments. But things like the following do, very rarely, happen even in them: https://morbidology.com/the-town-that-got-away-with-murder/ https://morbidology.com/the-town-that-got-away-with-murder/