4 ms·

Not sure what is meant by a drop in replacement in this context. Normally I would think a drop in replacement would mean I could switch to it and do everything

by rascul 3y ago

Not sure what is meant by a drop in replacement in this context. Normally I would think a drop in replacement would mean I could switch to it and do everything the same as I was doing it. But my guess is that if I did this drop in replacement that little to none of the web activities I partake in would work anymore. So maybe my thoughts aren't quite what is meant.

sanity31415 3y ago
It's a drop in replacement for everything north of the user's web browser - so it's drop-in from the perspective of the user, but centralized services need to be recreated for it. We're already working on a decentralized messaging system as a proof of concept, others will follow.
- rascul 3y ago
  > everything north of the user's web browser I'm not sure what this means. > it's drop-in from the perspective of the user From my perspective as a user, if after doing the drop in replacement, I can't use my bank's web site or browse Hacker News the same way, or watch TV on Hulu, it's not a drop in replacement because what I did before no longer works. It's not clear to me if this is the case with Freenet.
  - sanity31415 3y ago
    > I'm not sure what this means. See the diagram here: [1] > From my perspective as a user, if after doing the drop in replacement, I can't use my bank's web site or browse Hacker News the same way, or watch TV on Hulu, it's not a drop in replacement because what I did before no longer works Those are centralized services, the idea is to allow the creation of decentralized alternatives that can still be used through familiar tools like the web browser. [1] https://docs.freenet.org/introduction.html https://docs.freenet.org/introduction.html
    - rascul 3y ago
      > Those are centralized services, the idea is to allow the creation of decentralized alternatives that can still be used through familiar tools like the web browser. And if I can't access those services on Freenet then it's not a drop in replacement. It may very well be a replacement. My issue is it being called a drop in replacement if it's not.
      - sanity31415 3y ago
        That's one way to interpret "drop in", my interpretation is that you use the existing UI you're familiar with - your browser - the rest is replaced with decentralized services. It sounds like you're looking for an anonymizing proxy like Tor. There is no way to do what you're looking for that could reasonably be considered decentralized.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        rascul 3y ago
        > That's one way to interpret "drop in", my interpretation is that you use the existing UI you're familiar with - your browser - the rest is replaced with decentralized services. I feel like we're so far apart on what a drop in replacement is that there's no point continuing this. > It sounds like you're looking for an anonymizing proxy like Tor. There is no way to do what you're looking for that could reasonably be considered decentralized. I'm not looking for anything. I'm concerned that I'm being misled and that can have an impact on my decision to use Freenet in the future.
        sanity31415 3y ago
        Honestly, you're the first person I've encountered to have such a narrow interpretation of "drop-in". We can agree to disagree.
        3y ago
- roundandround 3y ago
  I'm not thrilled to see a discussion of contracts.. How do the system designers intend to avoid a speculative tulip market for small amounts of processing? Can anyone bring up all the computing they would ever need by plugging it into the Internet? The P2P aspect looks much better, but naturally there's the question of how this is differentiated from something like Tor with .Onion sites?
  - sanity31415 3y ago
    > I'm not thrilled to see a discussion of contracts They're not contracts in the sense of a cryptocurrency, they're contracts in the sense that code and cryptography are used to control how data is used and updated in the system, similar to a database ACL, or object encapsulation in OOP. This is a generalization of a concept called "signed subspace keys" in the original Freenet, which predated Bitcoin by almost a decade. > The P2P aspect looks much better, but naturally there's the question of how this is differentiated from something like Tor with .Onion sites? .Onion sites and services are still centralized, their server's location is just hidden by Tor. With the new Freenet the services themselves are entirely decentralized and can operate entirely independently of the person or people that created them.
- dgeiser13 3y ago
  What direction is north? Is that between where I am currently sitting and the North pole?
  - sanity31415 3y ago
    See https://docs.freenet.org/introduction.html https://docs.freenet.org/introduction.html

by rascul 3y ago

sanity31415 3y ago

It's a drop in replacement for everything north of the user's web browser - so it's drop-in from the perspective of the user, but centralized services need to be recreated for it. We're already working on a decentralized messaging system as a proof of concept, others will follow.

rascul 3y ago
> everything north of the user's web browser I'm not sure what this means. > it's drop-in from the perspective of the user From my perspective as a user, if after doing the drop in replacement, I can't use my bank's web site or browse Hacker News the same way, or watch TV on Hulu, it's not a drop in replacement because what I did before no longer works. It's not clear to me if this is the case with Freenet.
- sanity31415 3y ago
  > I'm not sure what this means. See the diagram here: [1] > From my perspective as a user, if after doing the drop in replacement, I can't use my bank's web site or browse Hacker News the same way, or watch TV on Hulu, it's not a drop in replacement because what I did before no longer works Those are centralized services, the idea is to allow the creation of decentralized alternatives that can still be used through familiar tools like the web browser. [1] https://docs.freenet.org/introduction.html https://docs.freenet.org/introduction.html
  - rascul 3y ago
    > Those are centralized services, the idea is to allow the creation of decentralized alternatives that can still be used through familiar tools like the web browser. And if I can't access those services on Freenet then it's not a drop in replacement. It may very well be a replacement. My issue is it being called a drop in replacement if it's not.
    - sanity31415 3y ago
      That's one way to interpret "drop in", my interpretation is that you use the existing UI you're familiar with - your browser - the rest is replaced with decentralized services. It sounds like you're looking for an anonymizing proxy like Tor. There is no way to do what you're looking for that could reasonably be considered decentralized.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - rascul 3y ago
        > That's one way to interpret "drop in", my interpretation is that you use the existing UI you're familiar with - your browser - the rest is replaced with decentralized services. I feel like we're so far apart on what a drop in replacement is that there's no point continuing this. > It sounds like you're looking for an anonymizing proxy like Tor. There is no way to do what you're looking for that could reasonably be considered decentralized. I'm not looking for anything. I'm concerned that I'm being misled and that can have an impact on my decision to use Freenet in the future.
        sanity31415 3y ago
        Honestly, you're the first person I've encountered to have such a narrow interpretation of "drop-in". We can agree to disagree.
        3y ago
roundandround 3y ago
I'm not thrilled to see a discussion of contracts.. How do the system designers intend to avoid a speculative tulip market for small amounts of processing? Can anyone bring up all the computing they would ever need by plugging it into the Internet? The P2P aspect looks much better, but naturally there's the question of how this is differentiated from something like Tor with .Onion sites?
- sanity31415 3y ago
  > I'm not thrilled to see a discussion of contracts They're not contracts in the sense of a cryptocurrency, they're contracts in the sense that code and cryptography are used to control how data is used and updated in the system, similar to a database ACL, or object encapsulation in OOP. This is a generalization of a concept called "signed subspace keys" in the original Freenet, which predated Bitcoin by almost a decade. > The P2P aspect looks much better, but naturally there's the question of how this is differentiated from something like Tor with .Onion sites? .Onion sites and services are still centralized, their server's location is just hidden by Tor. With the new Freenet the services themselves are entirely decentralized and can operate entirely independently of the person or people that created them.
dgeiser13 3y ago
What direction is north? Is that between where I am currently sitting and the North pole?
- sanity31415 3y ago
  See https://docs.freenet.org/introduction.html https://docs.freenet.org/introduction.html