4 ms·

Sidenote: You might want to describe that link, as The Independent redirects based on location and/or device language. All I get is the front page.

cjrp 3y ago
Headline is “Man in the Netherlands euthanised due to his alcohol addiction”
- hyperdimension 3y ago
  Just to be clear, in case anyone doesn't read the article: the man chose by himself to be euthanized, not the alternate reading I first thought.
nicolaslegland 3y ago
https://archive.is/TKUXU https://archive.is/TKUXU https://web.archive.org/web/20161130080200/https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/man-holland-netherlands-dutch-euthanised-alcohol-addiction-alcoholic-netherlands-a7446256.html https://web.archive.org/web/20161130080200/https://www.indep...
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
It's about a chap in Holland that was a recidivist alcoholic, who took advantage of the Dutch Euthanasia laws, to end his life. There's really no way to put a positive spin on it. It sucks, no matter what opinions we hold on the matter. The laws aren't the issue. If someone really wants to end things; they will. I have seen it many times, and alternative means can be absolutely devastating to the survivors.
- petesergeant 3y ago
  > who took advantage of the Dutch Euthanasia laws, to end his life ... it sucks, no matter what opinions we hold on the matter His brother disagrees with you, explicitly answering an anti-euthanasia protester with: "I am just glad my brother did not have to jump in front of a train or live a few more years in agony before dying of his abuse"
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    He could have ODed on opium from the dark web. He could have networked with other suicidal people to find a humane way to kill himself (or be killed). I hate that people steelman governmental oversight and approval of suicide by strawmanning the other options. In countries which legalize euthanasia it becomes easier to do it for more reasons. Just keep it illegal, but don't prosecute people who try to do it. When a person reaches a point where they really want to die, they can figure out a way.
    - vaidhy 3y ago
      I would think my right to live also includes my right to die with dignity.
      - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        Sure. But just as you don't have a right to material support from the state in order to live, you don't have a right to material support from the state in order to die. Unless you happen to live in a country in which you do have such a right. Regardless, these rights are limited. I'm in favor of increasing the first right such that suicides are minimized, and reducing the second right to not prosecuting you for attempting suicide.
        fuzzfactor 3y ago
        Well thought. When considering rights conferred by authorities or society, there is often litte relationship between what's available at any one time, to what is beneficial to any one individual, who most often has no significant input about ways their particular needs may be better addressed.
        8note 3y ago
        My right means the government can't hinder me. Making it illegal, regardless of whether it's prosecuted or not is stamping on my rights. The government has no ability to make it illegal
  - 3y ago
- bizbizbizbiz 3y ago
  In the article, the family of the patient cited that his alcoholism was secondary to his depression - a symptom of the bigger thing he was suffering from. The article goes to lengths though (see: title) to put the focus on “an alcoholic was euthanized.” The brother’s relevant quote: > "My brother suffered from depression and anxiety and tried to 'cure' it with alcohol. He's from a normal family, he did not want this to happen. He did not take an easy way out. Just a humane one. > "If that's troubling for Mrs Bruce that's a pity. I am just glad my brother did not have to jump in front of a train or live a few more years in agony before dying of his abuse. I can’t tell you for sure what is fact, but I’m inclined to take the more rational explanation of the family over the irrational “this was an alcoholic choosing death over rehab.”

cjrp 3y ago

Headline is “Man in the Netherlands euthanised due to his alcohol addiction”

hyperdimension 3y ago
Just to be clear, in case anyone doesn't read the article: the man chose by himself to be euthanized, not the alternate reading I first thought.

nicolaslegland 3y ago

https://archive.is/TKUXU https://archive.is/TKUXU https://web.archive.org/web/20161130080200/https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/man-holland-netherlands-dutch-euthanised-alcohol-addiction-alcoholic-netherlands-a7446256.html https://web.archive.org/web/20161130080200/https://www.indep...

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

It's about a chap in Holland that was a recidivist alcoholic, who took advantage of the Dutch Euthanasia laws, to end his life. There's really no way to put a positive spin on it. It sucks, no matter what opinions we hold on the matter. The laws aren't the issue. If someone really wants to end things; they will. I have seen it many times, and alternative means can be absolutely devastating to the survivors.

petesergeant 3y ago
> who took advantage of the Dutch Euthanasia laws, to end his life ... it sucks, no matter what opinions we hold on the matter His brother disagrees with you, explicitly answering an anti-euthanasia protester with: "I am just glad my brother did not have to jump in front of a train or live a few more years in agony before dying of his abuse"
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  He could have ODed on opium from the dark web. He could have networked with other suicidal people to find a humane way to kill himself (or be killed). I hate that people steelman governmental oversight and approval of suicide by strawmanning the other options. In countries which legalize euthanasia it becomes easier to do it for more reasons. Just keep it illegal, but don't prosecute people who try to do it. When a person reaches a point where they really want to die, they can figure out a way.
  - vaidhy 3y ago
    I would think my right to live also includes my right to die with dignity.
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      Sure. But just as you don't have a right to material support from the state in order to live, you don't have a right to material support from the state in order to die. Unless you happen to live in a country in which you do have such a right. Regardless, these rights are limited. I'm in favor of increasing the first right such that suicides are minimized, and reducing the second right to not prosecuting you for attempting suicide.
      - fuzzfactor 3y ago
        Well thought. When considering rights conferred by authorities or society, there is often litte relationship between what's available at any one time, to what is beneficial to any one individual, who most often has no significant input about ways their particular needs may be better addressed.
      - 8note 3y ago
        My right means the government can't hinder me. Making it illegal, regardless of whether it's prosecuted or not is stamping on my rights. The government has no ability to make it illegal
- 3y ago
bizbizbizbiz 3y ago
In the article, the family of the patient cited that his alcoholism was secondary to his depression - a symptom of the bigger thing he was suffering from. The article goes to lengths though (see: title) to put the focus on “an alcoholic was euthanized.” The brother’s relevant quote: > "My brother suffered from depression and anxiety and tried to 'cure' it with alcohol. He's from a normal family, he did not want this to happen. He did not take an easy way out. Just a humane one. > "If that's troubling for Mrs Bruce that's a pity. I am just glad my brother did not have to jump in front of a train or live a few more years in agony before dying of his abuse. I can’t tell you for sure what is fact, but I’m inclined to take the more rational explanation of the family over the irrational “this was an alcoholic choosing death over rehab.”