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And often there is no other solution and I’m very happy that people in my country have a choice about this. I would not want to see others suffer so that I won’

And often there is no other solution and I’m very happy that people in my country have a choice about this. I would not want to see others suffer so that I won’t suffer their loss.

coldtea 3y ago
>I would not want to see others suffer so that I won’t suffer their loss. The world being what it is, it's increasingly the opposite: others left or encouraged even to commit suicide (assisted or otherwise) so people dont have to help and support them. In Canada it's increasingly becoming a trend for poor people to commit assisted suicide, not because they have some incurable disease and pain, but because they can't get by and are depressed by it.
- louwrentius 3y ago
  The Canada example is not about suicide at all but about the impact of a society without a safety net. The issue isn’t the suicides, it’s almost a logical response to a situation that is objectively terrible without a possibility or getting better.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    It's connected though, when assisted suicide there, is not just legal, but increasingly accepted, nornalized, or even encouraged as an invididual solution to not having a safety net. So, the cause of the problem isn't the suicides - but they are offered (and used) as a way-out of it. This eases the burden on the state to do something to solve the root problem (why improve their condition, when they just off themselves and they wont be bothering us with their need for help anymore?).
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/woman-with-chemical-sensitivities-chose-medically-assisted-death-after-failed-bid-to-get-better-housing-1.5860579 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/woman-with-chemical-sensitivit... > Woman with chemical sensitivities chose medically-assisted death after failed bid to get better housing https://www.liveaction.org/news/euthanasia-unjust-social-conditions/ https://www.liveaction.org/news/euthanasia-unjust-social-con... > a recent poll found that 27 percent of Canadians polled strongly or moderately agree that euthanasia is acceptable for suffering caused by “poverty” and 28 percent strongly or moderately agree that killing by doctors is acceptable for suffering caused by homelessness. > And in the context of medical issues, the authors claim that this includes killing patients who would not want to die if they could access proper treatment (emphasis theirs) > So, socialized medicine fails, and a splendid answer to the problem for patients in need is euthanasia. Do you see now why I call euthanasia/assisted suicide “abandonment?”
      - mthoms 3y ago
        While this case is indeed controversial and worthy of examining... I'm sceptical of "liveaction.org" as a source because it describes itself thusly: "Live Action News is pro-life news and commentary from a pro-life perspective." Nothing wrong with that of course, but I'd hardly consider it an authoritative source.
        anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        This was a commentary piece which quoted (to comment on) other sources. Almost everyone talking about this topic is at least biased, and generally (what's-the-word for "motivated to convince others as to their point-of-view"?).
        mthoms 3y ago
        Upon closer inspection, it's an exact reprint of from an article from "National Review" which is a famously conservative organization. >This was a commentary piece which quoted (to comment on) other sources. Understood. I just thought I'd point out the potential for bias because it isn't obvious at a quick read. One of the great things about HN (IMHO) is that people tend to discuss things from a more scientific perspective than a religious or ideological one. More to the point, there is no link to this study cited in the very first paragraph. As a Canadian I've never heard of this study so was interested to take a look. Googling a bit found the results and further discussion on why the National Review interpretation of it is pretty dishonest. Sorry, but this is a terrible source for HN.
        anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        This particular issue is difficult to discuss from a scientific perspective, because basically the only non-opinion (i.e. ideological) questions that can be asked are: whether making assisted suicide legal increases or decreases total suicides, and what are the economic impacts of assisted suicide legalization. Everything else about assisted suicide is ideological or ideological driven (at minimum, the balance between antipathies of death compared to pain). Everyone talking about this is biased. Some lie or exaggerate, and this is important to point out, but every source of information cherry-picks what they choose to highlight.
    - louwrentius 3y ago
      To be frank, I don’t buy those stories about people being nudged to commit suicide. In NL we have euthanasia for decades and the system works well. I think those scare stories originate from politically / religiously tainted sources.

And often there is no other solution and I’m very happy that people in my country have a choice about this. I would not want to see others suffer so that I won’t suffer their loss.

coldtea 3y ago

>I would not want to see others suffer so that I won’t suffer their loss. The world being what it is, it's increasingly the opposite: others left or encouraged even to commit suicide (assisted or otherwise) so people dont have to help and support them. In Canada it's increasingly becoming a trend for poor people to commit assisted suicide, not because they have some incurable disease and pain, but because they can't get by and are depressed by it.

louwrentius 3y ago
The Canada example is not about suicide at all but about the impact of a society without a safety net. The issue isn’t the suicides, it’s almost a logical response to a situation that is objectively terrible without a possibility or getting better.
- coldtea 3y ago
  It's connected though, when assisted suicide there, is not just legal, but increasingly accepted, nornalized, or even encouraged as an invididual solution to not having a safety net. So, the cause of the problem isn't the suicides - but they are offered (and used) as a way-out of it. This eases the burden on the state to do something to solve the root problem (why improve their condition, when they just off themselves and they wont be bothering us with their need for help anymore?).
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/woman-with-chemical-sensitivities-chose-medically-assisted-death-after-failed-bid-to-get-better-housing-1.5860579 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/woman-with-chemical-sensitivit... > Woman with chemical sensitivities chose medically-assisted death after failed bid to get better housing https://www.liveaction.org/news/euthanasia-unjust-social-conditions/ https://www.liveaction.org/news/euthanasia-unjust-social-con... > a recent poll found that 27 percent of Canadians polled strongly or moderately agree that euthanasia is acceptable for suffering caused by “poverty” and 28 percent strongly or moderately agree that killing by doctors is acceptable for suffering caused by homelessness. > And in the context of medical issues, the authors claim that this includes killing patients who would not want to die if they could access proper treatment (emphasis theirs) > So, socialized medicine fails, and a splendid answer to the problem for patients in need is euthanasia. Do you see now why I call euthanasia/assisted suicide “abandonment?”
    - mthoms 3y ago
      While this case is indeed controversial and worthy of examining... I'm sceptical of "liveaction.org" as a source because it describes itself thusly: "Live Action News is pro-life news and commentary from a pro-life perspective." Nothing wrong with that of course, but I'd hardly consider it an authoritative source.
      - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        This was a commentary piece which quoted (to comment on) other sources. Almost everyone talking about this topic is at least biased, and generally (what's-the-word for "motivated to convince others as to their point-of-view"?).
        mthoms 3y ago
        Upon closer inspection, it's an exact reprint of from an article from "National Review" which is a famously conservative organization. >This was a commentary piece which quoted (to comment on) other sources. Understood. I just thought I'd point out the potential for bias because it isn't obvious at a quick read. One of the great things about HN (IMHO) is that people tend to discuss things from a more scientific perspective than a religious or ideological one. More to the point, there is no link to this study cited in the very first paragraph. As a Canadian I've never heard of this study so was interested to take a look. Googling a bit found the results and further discussion on why the National Review interpretation of it is pretty dishonest. Sorry, but this is a terrible source for HN.
        anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        This particular issue is difficult to discuss from a scientific perspective, because basically the only non-opinion (i.e. ideological) questions that can be asked are: whether making assisted suicide legal increases or decreases total suicides, and what are the economic impacts of assisted suicide legalization. Everything else about assisted suicide is ideological or ideological driven (at minimum, the balance between antipathies of death compared to pain). Everyone talking about this is biased. Some lie or exaggerate, and this is important to point out, but every source of information cherry-picks what they choose to highlight.
  - louwrentius 3y ago
    To be frank, I don’t buy those stories about people being nudged to commit suicide. In NL we have euthanasia for decades and the system works well. I think those scare stories originate from politically / religiously tainted sources.