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I've come to think a lot about home schooling. As I have grown up, taught myself a bunch of interesting things, and been exposed to different kinds of approache

I've come to think a lot about home schooling. As I have grown up, taught myself a bunch of interesting things, and been exposed to different kinds of approaches and teachers, I've become pretty passionate about pedagogy. I realise I probably only see small parts of the picture, and like the article says, I would quickly come to respect teachers a lot more if I decided to have a go at it. Still, I wonder. The most obvious downside is probably that the social dimension of public schools is hard to replace. But imagine you're five friendly families, where the different parents have different academic strengths. You all decide to work 80%, and rotate from day to day which parent couple teaches the children. Wouldn't that be something?

dbspin 3y ago
You'll be pleased to hear it is something! There's a whole school system designed around this approach - parents as staff, non-directive learning, secular, democratic, no age stratification, school as an Ivan Illich style workshop for learning. They're called Sudbury Valley and they've been around since the 1960s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_Valley_School https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_Valley_School I actually made a radio documentary about one of these schools, Wicklow Sudbury in the South East of Ireland https://soundcloud.com/garethstack/the-free-school https://soundcloud.com/garethstack/the-free-school As someone who had a very rough experience of school (the social side being the worst part), it was inspiring to see a place where kids could truly be themselves and pursue their interests (often to levels far beyond their 'grade year' in traditional education).
moi2388 3y ago
And why not see which parents teach the best by measuring test results? And then have that person teach full time and the rest can work regular jobs again and oh wait it’s schools again isn’t it
- ThunderSizzle 3y ago
  Let's also scale it up to hundreds upon hundreds of kids so now everyone is just a number. Let's add a school board that ignores parents, meaning parents no longer have any real say any more. Let's add a teachers union that protects bad teachers, even to the point of keeping pedophiles in schools. Let's close schools for 4 months so kids can work on the fields in the summer and forget everything when they return.
- martindbp 3y ago
  Who would you like to teach you business: someone who actually founded their own business or an academic? Who would you like to teach you surgery, a surgeon or someone who was taught just enough book knowledge to be considered a teacher? Programming by someone who never programmed? Math by someone who never used math to solve a problem in their life? There are good teachers out there but in general I'm skeptical. Ideally teachers should have at least some real-world knowledge before becoming teachers. Unfortunately where I live teachers are a licensed occupation and you need a 5 year degree for a job with very little pay, so that by itself filters out a ton of experts who might be willing to teach.
  - jaggederest 3y ago
    Well, I think it's clear that teaching is a separate skillset: one that, to excel in, requires a bunch of skills that are not common. Especially when teaching below, say, 8th grade, where most of what is being taught is relatively common knowledge, I think specialized teaching skills in the hands of a gifted teacher can outpace experts in their field. (Certainly some of the experts I know have trouble expressing their expertise even to other knowledgeable people in their field, let alone children) That being said, I think in general most children learn like a sponge when given even a tiny bit of encouragement, so it may be moot.
    - martindbp 3y ago
      I don't think teachers are necessarily the main problem with the education system. The one-to-many (20+) rote, fixed curriculum, unpersonalized, forced aspects are worse. Kids provably don't learn much in school.
- bitlax 3y ago
  Public school teachers are not required to be parents with children in that system, and their compensation and placement are not based predominantly on merit.
xupybd 3y ago
>The most obvious downside is probably that the social dimension of public schools is hard to replace. I bet it's not that hard to replace. There are opportunities for interactions outside of school. Sports teams are a common example. There are many after school clubs that children can join to be exposed to other children. If you only have one child I could see them having limited contact with children during their school day but often siblings provide lots of opportunities to learn how to get along with others.
xyzzy123 3y ago
My kids go to a primary school which operates a bit like this, in Melbourne. It's about 30 kids / 20 families ish (it's hard to practically scale consensus decision-making beyond certain limits). It's operated as a parent-run co-op. It's also government funded which on the bright side means it has to meet all the relevant standards and regulations... with the downside that we have to meet those standards. The ever increasing admin burden from the education department is a problem. The regulations are really designed for larger entities. You have to be committed. There are a lot of meetings (far more than in a regular school), each family does "time on" once a week where parents come in and be part of the kids education. There's also rosters for cleaning, regular working bees and so on. The coop employs some qualified teachers who work alongside the parents. They're amazing - and also an interesting source of tension, as the teachers have professional obligations / are bound to government curriculum, which often conflicts with how parents would prefer things be done. It's a lot of work (and a lot of interpersonal work and conflict resolution), but absolutely worth it for our family so far.

dbspin 3y ago

You'll be pleased to hear it is something! There's a whole school system designed around this approach - parents as staff, non-directive learning, secular, democratic, no age stratification, school as an Ivan Illich style workshop for learning. They're called Sudbury Valley and they've been around since the 1960s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_Valley_School https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_Valley_School I actually made a radio documentary about one of these schools, Wicklow Sudbury in the South East of Ireland https://soundcloud.com/garethstack/the-free-school https://soundcloud.com/garethstack/the-free-school As someone who had a very rough experience of school (the social side being the worst part), it was inspiring to see a place where kids could truly be themselves and pursue their interests (often to levels far beyond their 'grade year' in traditional education).

moi2388 3y ago

And why not see which parents teach the best by measuring test results? And then have that person teach full time and the rest can work regular jobs again and oh wait it’s schools again isn’t it

ThunderSizzle 3y ago
Let's also scale it up to hundreds upon hundreds of kids so now everyone is just a number. Let's add a school board that ignores parents, meaning parents no longer have any real say any more. Let's add a teachers union that protects bad teachers, even to the point of keeping pedophiles in schools. Let's close schools for 4 months so kids can work on the fields in the summer and forget everything when they return.
martindbp 3y ago
Who would you like to teach you business: someone who actually founded their own business or an academic? Who would you like to teach you surgery, a surgeon or someone who was taught just enough book knowledge to be considered a teacher? Programming by someone who never programmed? Math by someone who never used math to solve a problem in their life? There are good teachers out there but in general I'm skeptical. Ideally teachers should have at least some real-world knowledge before becoming teachers. Unfortunately where I live teachers are a licensed occupation and you need a 5 year degree for a job with very little pay, so that by itself filters out a ton of experts who might be willing to teach.
- jaggederest 3y ago
  Well, I think it's clear that teaching is a separate skillset: one that, to excel in, requires a bunch of skills that are not common. Especially when teaching below, say, 8th grade, where most of what is being taught is relatively common knowledge, I think specialized teaching skills in the hands of a gifted teacher can outpace experts in their field. (Certainly some of the experts I know have trouble expressing their expertise even to other knowledgeable people in their field, let alone children) That being said, I think in general most children learn like a sponge when given even a tiny bit of encouragement, so it may be moot.
  - martindbp 3y ago
    I don't think teachers are necessarily the main problem with the education system. The one-to-many (20+) rote, fixed curriculum, unpersonalized, forced aspects are worse. Kids provably don't learn much in school.
bitlax 3y ago
Public school teachers are not required to be parents with children in that system, and their compensation and placement are not based predominantly on merit.

xupybd 3y ago

>The most obvious downside is probably that the social dimension of public schools is hard to replace. I bet it's not that hard to replace. There are opportunities for interactions outside of school. Sports teams are a common example. There are many after school clubs that children can join to be exposed to other children. If you only have one child I could see them having limited contact with children during their school day but often siblings provide lots of opportunities to learn how to get along with others.

xyzzy123 3y ago

My kids go to a primary school which operates a bit like this, in Melbourne. It's about 30 kids / 20 families ish (it's hard to practically scale consensus decision-making beyond certain limits). It's operated as a parent-run co-op. It's also government funded which on the bright side means it has to meet all the relevant standards and regulations... with the downside that we have to meet those standards. The ever increasing admin burden from the education department is a problem. The regulations are really designed for larger entities. You have to be committed. There are a lot of meetings (far more than in a regular school), each family does "time on" once a week where parents come in and be part of the kids education. There's also rosters for cleaning, regular working bees and so on. The coop employs some qualified teachers who work alongside the parents. They're amazing - and also an interesting source of tension, as the teachers have professional obligations / are bound to government curriculum, which often conflicts with how parents would prefer things be done. It's a lot of work (and a lot of interpersonal work and conflict resolution), but absolutely worth it for our family so far.