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I get you, because I’ve been down this line of thought as well. But I’ve concluded the whip hand is not even that of society, but nature itself. Everyone is dri

I get you, because I’ve been down this line of thought as well. But I’ve concluded the whip hand is not even that of society, but nature itself. Everyone is driven by the biological need to eat, at the end of the day. So how did your great grandfather eat? Where did this readily available food come from? Would other people provide him with endless food while he did this philosophizing? I imagine that any society, whether advanced megalopolis or tribal village, has a limit to their generosity towards complete nonproducers and would eventually demand something out of them, even if it’s just the output of that philosophizing. Someone had to work to produce that readily available food, I would think. If he grew/harvested his own food, then he’d be lucky if he never experienced a stressful or even deadly event of pestilence, drought, or even injury to himself rendering him incapable of doing the quite hard work of growing and harvesting it. Producing food is hard work and modern technological capitalism can be seen as a process of creating more and more layers of abstraction between food producers and the mouths that need to be fed, and doing it more efficiently at that to generate more spare time for other activities like leisure or philosophizing.

sph 3y ago
Those are very good questions, but here's the thing. What even is the point of all this technology is the only option is a free life of prehistoric subsistence, or the drone life of a desk worker? I refuse to accept this false binary choice. We are not made into drones because the machines and industry needs constant maintenance. Society with its artificial busywork and bullshit rules is the reason one has to work 40 hours a week. We have to earn a ton of money because, at the end of the day, half of it goes into the pocket of plutocrats, not to keep the gears oiled. This is a huge topic for a comment on a forum thread, I am just trying to understand why other people deep into technology, automation, like us, are unable to visualize a world where technology works for us. Frees us from nature. Because right now we are using technology against ourselves. To control us, to make us more productive, to make our bosses more rich and politicians more powerful. Technology is a tool. A force multiplier. But we are not using to increase our living standards, only to keep this circus turning, at our expense.
- zamnos 3y ago
  Because money, when you have enough of it, works for you. So we do our best, in the system we were born into, to squirrel away as much money so as to be able to retire ASAP, while remaining as sane as can be. Technology these days is just icing on the cake. We don't need faster computers or ChatGPT to be able to feed all of humanity. We've been there for decades.
- sixstringtheory 3y ago
  FWIW I agree with everything your saying, I think. I started out pr and only recently have had enough money to consider investing and high yield savings and bonds and all that shot, but it still gels zero sum, like inflation or the next black swan will just wipe it all out anyways if I ever try to retire and live off of what I’ve squirreled away, as sibling comment puts it. It feels like there is no escape from work. Either you’ll spend every minute fishing for berries and hunting, or tilling sowing and reaping, or working at a desk and grocery shopping. I truly admire the ascetics that give it all up and put their fate at the mercy of chance.

sph 3y ago

Those are very good questions, but here's the thing. What even is the point of all this technology is the only option is a free life of prehistoric subsistence, or the drone life of a desk worker? I refuse to accept this false binary choice. We are not made into drones because the machines and industry needs constant maintenance. Society with its artificial busywork and bullshit rules is the reason one has to work 40 hours a week. We have to earn a ton of money because, at the end of the day, half of it goes into the pocket of plutocrats, not to keep the gears oiled. This is a huge topic for a comment on a forum thread, I am just trying to understand why other people deep into technology, automation, like us, are unable to visualize a world where technology works for us. Frees us from nature. Because right now we are using technology against ourselves. To control us, to make us more productive, to make our bosses more rich and politicians more powerful. Technology is a tool. A force multiplier. But we are not using to increase our living standards, only to keep this circus turning, at our expense.

zamnos 3y ago
Because money, when you have enough of it, works for you. So we do our best, in the system we were born into, to squirrel away as much money so as to be able to retire ASAP, while remaining as sane as can be. Technology these days is just icing on the cake. We don't need faster computers or ChatGPT to be able to feed all of humanity. We've been there for decades.
sixstringtheory 3y ago
FWIW I agree with everything your saying, I think. I started out pr and only recently have had enough money to consider investing and high yield savings and bonds and all that shot, but it still gels zero sum, like inflation or the next black swan will just wipe it all out anyways if I ever try to retire and live off of what I’ve squirreled away, as sibling comment puts it. It feels like there is no escape from work. Either you’ll spend every minute fishing for berries and hunting, or tilling sowing and reaping, or working at a desk and grocery shopping. I truly admire the ascetics that give it all up and put their fate at the mercy of chance.