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You sound like a blast to work for.

jdlshore 3y ago
I know you’re just trying to be insulting, but it’s truly gratifying to do work that you feel is meaningful and engaging. So, yes. I am.
- davesque 3y ago
  Honestly, no. I just get tired of hearing the same boring "I only hire go getters who enjoy hard work for its own sake" mantra in response to people asserting their own worth. The thing that I think you (and many others in this weak crop of leaders) don't understand about your own success story is that you were one of the lucky ones. The reality is that a lot of others out there burned their midnight oil, and even probably enjoyed the thrill of it, but then got nothing for it. Indeed, they probably even got laid off as a reward. And then they rationally decided that they didn't want to die a sucker.
  - jdlshore 3y ago
    You're so eager to take offense, you're imagining I'm someone different than who I am, and that I'm saying something different than what I'm saying. I'm a programmer who advises software leaders on how to create effective software development organizations. I didn't get here by burning the midnight oil; I got here by understanding software development—and getting lucky. I adopted Extreme Programming back in 1999, had notable successes, and people wanted to learn from my experience. I'm saying that people work most effectively when they are intrinsically motivated. This is well supported by books such as Alfie Kohn's _Punished By Rewards,_ and more recently popularized by Daniel Pink. The job of the manager is to support that motivation: to provide context and resources (I don't mean people); to trust people to do a good job; to put decisions about work processes in the hands of the people doing the work. And yes, to hire people who are worthy of that trust, and who work well in that sort of environment, and to remove people who are not. This is not about working long hours, or taking advantage of people. It's about doing work that you can be proud of, in an environment that supports doing your best work, with a team that's jelled, creating things that are better than you can create alone. If you've never been in that kind of environment, it might seem like an impossible dream, or even a cynical ploy to pay less. It's not.
    - throwuwu 3y ago
      The OP has a point. You can be intrinsically motivated and still wind up bitter and disillusioned by spending years in a terrible job where all the “devex” things in this article are deep in the negative. High cognitive load, constant interruptions kicking you out of flow and miserably slow feedback loops can make anyone hate their work. Your description of doing work you’re proud of with a good team is a far off fantasy for a lot of people. You being a consultant should know this more than anyone.
      - jdlshore 3y ago
        Oh, I know. Best thing people can do in that situation is to move on. Life’s too short to spend 1/3 your waking hours in an environment you hate. I think the thing a lot of people in this thread are missing is that intrinsic motivation isn’t just about the person. It’s mostly about the workplace. It isn’t possible to create intrinsic motivation, but it is possible to destroy it. Micromanagement, useless interruptions, excessive meetings, unreasonable deadlines, all that devex stuff, and yes, unfair compensation… it’s all going to lead to an environment where people hate their job. If you’re in that kind of environment, get out. It’s bad for your soul.
        davesque 3y ago
        Now these are all statements I agree with. And if I missed any of this in your earlier comments, I apologize. Although I would add that I think everyone has the instinct to be intrinsically motivated.
  - agumonkey 3y ago
    I don't think he's advocating for bleeding to death. If I understand your message, you'd rather optimize playing the corporate game "negotiate higher, while doing just enough" ? is that right ? If so I'm trying this and so far I'm deeply unhappy, even with a "high" salary, I struggle to wake up. Meanwhile 2 years ago I was doing part time manual labour and self driven fullstack app on my own time and own term. I was 10x happier. Software work teams are messy.

I know you’re just trying to be insulting, but it’s truly gratifying to do work that you feel is meaningful and engaging. So, yes. I am.

davesque 3y ago
Honestly, no. I just get tired of hearing the same boring "I only hire go getters who enjoy hard work for its own sake" mantra in response to people asserting their own worth. The thing that I think you (and many others in this weak crop of leaders) don't understand about your own success story is that you were one of the lucky ones. The reality is that a lot of others out there burned their midnight oil, and even probably enjoyed the thrill of it, but then got nothing for it. Indeed, they probably even got laid off as a reward. And then they rationally decided that they didn't want to die a sucker.
- jdlshore 3y ago
  You're so eager to take offense, you're imagining I'm someone different than who I am, and that I'm saying something different than what I'm saying. I'm a programmer who advises software leaders on how to create effective software development organizations. I didn't get here by burning the midnight oil; I got here by understanding software development—and getting lucky. I adopted Extreme Programming back in 1999, had notable successes, and people wanted to learn from my experience. I'm saying that people work most effectively when they are intrinsically motivated. This is well supported by books such as Alfie Kohn's _Punished By Rewards,_ and more recently popularized by Daniel Pink. The job of the manager is to support that motivation: to provide context and resources (I don't mean people); to trust people to do a good job; to put decisions about work processes in the hands of the people doing the work. And yes, to hire people who are worthy of that trust, and who work well in that sort of environment, and to remove people who are not. This is not about working long hours, or taking advantage of people. It's about doing work that you can be proud of, in an environment that supports doing your best work, with a team that's jelled, creating things that are better than you can create alone. If you've never been in that kind of environment, it might seem like an impossible dream, or even a cynical ploy to pay less. It's not.
  - throwuwu 3y ago
    The OP has a point. You can be intrinsically motivated and still wind up bitter and disillusioned by spending years in a terrible job where all the “devex” things in this article are deep in the negative. High cognitive load, constant interruptions kicking you out of flow and miserably slow feedback loops can make anyone hate their work. Your description of doing work you’re proud of with a good team is a far off fantasy for a lot of people. You being a consultant should know this more than anyone.
    - jdlshore 3y ago
      Oh, I know. Best thing people can do in that situation is to move on. Life’s too short to spend 1/3 your waking hours in an environment you hate. I think the thing a lot of people in this thread are missing is that intrinsic motivation isn’t just about the person. It’s mostly about the workplace. It isn’t possible to create intrinsic motivation, but it is possible to destroy it. Micromanagement, useless interruptions, excessive meetings, unreasonable deadlines, all that devex stuff, and yes, unfair compensation… it’s all going to lead to an environment where people hate their job. If you’re in that kind of environment, get out. It’s bad for your soul.
      - davesque 3y ago
        Now these are all statements I agree with. And if I missed any of this in your earlier comments, I apologize. Although I would add that I think everyone has the instinct to be intrinsically motivated.
- agumonkey 3y ago
  I don't think he's advocating for bleeding to death. If I understand your message, you'd rather optimize playing the corporate game "negotiate higher, while doing just enough" ? is that right ? If so I'm trying this and so far I'm deeply unhappy, even with a "high" salary, I struggle to wake up. Meanwhile 2 years ago I was doing part time manual labour and self driven fullstack app on my own time and own term. I was 10x happier. Software work teams are messy.