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The system is working as intended. I've seen a lot of talk recently about crime and calls for various people to be imprisoned; everyone from carjackers to righ

The system is working as intended. I've seen a lot of talk recently about crime and calls for various people to be imprisoned; everyone from carjackers to right-wing vigilantes. In the midst of these conversations, please remember: prisons exist to torture prisoners. Excerpts from another recent Marshall project article: > An officer who broke his baton hitting a prisoner 35 times, even after the man was handcuffed, was not fired. Neither were the guards who beat a prisoner at Attica Correctional Facility so badly that he needed 13 staples to close gashes in his scalp. Nor were the officers who battered a man with mental illness, injuring him from face to groin. The man hanged himself the next day. > Magalios, who was incarcerated at Fishkill Correctional Facility, was kicked and punched by a guard after hugging and kissing his wife hello during a visit. Court records show that another officer held Magalios down while a third watched. All three officers still work at Fishkill. > The Marshall Project identified more than 160 excessive-force lawsuits that the state lost or settled, paying $18.5 million in damages. The corrections department’s records show that officials attempted to discipline an officer in just 20 of those cases. They fired six guards. https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/05/19/new-york-prison-corrections-officer-abuse-prisoners https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/05/19/new-york-priso... ----- If your child made the choice to steal someone's car, you would be upset with them. But would you want them to be subjected to decades of unchecked abuse and inhumane treatment?

whitemary 3y ago
> The system is working as intended. Wrong. The intentions of the ruling class are not to oppress others but merely to protect their own interests, which is a far more difficult matter to confront. The fundamental basis of capitalism, being the state's violent protection of the right to accumulate capital, defines the predominant motives of oppression. Members of the ruling class have little choice but to expand their personal power and control, lest they lose it all. This tendency alone results in the private prison industrial complex and erodes citizen rights.
- paulcole 3y ago
  > This tendency alone results in the private prison industrial complex and erodes citizen rights. So what you're saying is that the system is working as intended?
- bccdee 3y ago
  No, that's not really accurate. Crime and punishment are part of an important narrative in American conservatism. Making prisoners suffer, especially black prisoners, is viewed as a plus, and that creates a climate where overt cruelty is condoned and even encouraged. The article talks about Jim Crow juries, unconstitutional jury rulings where the defendant gets convicted even when the jury is split. These were created to try and stifle the voice of black jurors, and they did, right up until just a couple years ago. Sheriffs like Joe Arpaio stay in office by marketing themselves to voters as being as cruel to prisoners as possible; it's just another facet of the enduring Southern Strategy. The system is working as intended.
  - short_sells_poo 3y ago
    I'd go as far as to say that prisons are a profitable business, and if the prison operators or their cronies can convince the masses that stuffing prisons to the brim is a good idea, that's just more profitable business. I don't think the prison industry or upper class are cruel for cruelty's sake. The American Conservatism is simply convenient to them. I'd go as far as to say that even voters who appear to embrace being cruel to prisoners aren't deliberately trying to be cruel, but are by and large the disenfranchised poor people with zero upward mobility, whose miserable existence is made slightly more bearable by having a class with even fewer privileges than them.
  - lynx23 3y ago
    This brings back memories of Tank (1984) which was my first contact with the concept of prison violence as an 8 year old. The movie itself is rather B-ish, but it was still the first time I realized that police dealing with judges and the prison system is a rather horrifying concept which would literally require military force to actually win against...
- phendrenad2 3y ago
  > The intentions of the ruling class are not to oppress others but merely to protect their own interests You're exactly right. But oppression is a useful tool to protect one's interest. Demoralizing people and showing them that you have them by the balls is an effective tactic. "Oh, you want to come at me? Have you seen our prison system? It's not worth it, not in a thousand years"
afpx 3y ago
There are a lot of other reasons why prisons exist (safety, money, jobs, etc.). One big one: applying power, usually to an weaker group. Cause, that's just what Homo Sapiens do.
skrbjc 3y ago
[flagged]
- lynx23 3y ago
  Are you implying that a girl would be unable to steal someone's car, or was that an accidentally misandristic comment?
- mftrhu 3y ago
  > From wikipedia on recidivism "According to an April 2011 report by the Pew Center on the States, the average national recidivism rate for released prisoners is 43%." If 43% of all prisoners are re-arrested after they are released, then you can make a pretty good assumption that they were not committing crime they would have, if they were not locked up. Or you could assume that the current prison system, in the States, is actually making recidivism rates worse by treating its inmates in such an inhumane way - hurt people hurt people. One could discriminate between the two assumptions by comparing its recidivism rates with recidivism rates in the rest of the world. > As you know, though, different crimes are punished in different ways, which makes sense. Different crimes are punished in different ways. In most of the civilized world, punishment ranges from fines to more-or-less harsh limitations of one's freedom of movement. I don't remember corporal punishment being one of the possible consequences for theft.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    > One could discriminate between the two assumptions by comparing its recidivism rates with recidivism rates in the rest of the world. Here you go. Looks like the US is not any kind of outlier. Some places do worse. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivism-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivis...
- bboygravity 3y ago
  Have kids grow up in terrible families (in part due to the government shitting on poors), put them in a cell for how they turn out, torture them and then expect them to become a better person who is ready for "normy life" from the terrible childhood + torturing in jail. The US is probably the only developed country in the world where this line of thinking is accepted as "yep, makes sense, pretty good approach"?
ericmcer 3y ago
Non violent and violent offenders should be treated differently. Hurting someone’s car is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. The author of this article killed someone. Making sure he is comfy is a bit disrespectful to the deceased and their family. I don’t know all the details but it has always seemed a bit messed up that someone can hurt or kill you and your societies main concern would be how to rehabilitate that person.
- crooked-v 3y ago
  Why do you want people to spend time in prison and not be rehabilitated before release?
IOT_Apprentice 3y ago
Prisons in the USA operate in that fashion.
Aunche 3y ago
If the purpose of prisons was to torture prisoners, then they would beat all prisoners with moderate severity rather than a few prisoners with heavy severity. The system that's working intended in your examples are unions protecting bad officers. It's another example of why we shouldn't have public sector unions.
int_19h 3y ago
The most amazing part is that these people have the gall to call themselves "correction officers". What are they correcting, exactly?
- candiodari 3y ago
  The state, and judges, refuse to attack their soldiers. And by allowing sadists, they get to pay them slightly less.

whitemary 3y ago

> The system is working as intended. Wrong. The intentions of the ruling class are not to oppress others but merely to protect their own interests, which is a far more difficult matter to confront. The fundamental basis of capitalism, being the state's violent protection of the right to accumulate capital, defines the predominant motives of oppression. Members of the ruling class have little choice but to expand their personal power and control, lest they lose it all. This tendency alone results in the private prison industrial complex and erodes citizen rights.

paulcole 3y ago
> This tendency alone results in the private prison industrial complex and erodes citizen rights. So what you're saying is that the system is working as intended?
bccdee 3y ago
No, that's not really accurate. Crime and punishment are part of an important narrative in American conservatism. Making prisoners suffer, especially black prisoners, is viewed as a plus, and that creates a climate where overt cruelty is condoned and even encouraged. The article talks about Jim Crow juries, unconstitutional jury rulings where the defendant gets convicted even when the jury is split. These were created to try and stifle the voice of black jurors, and they did, right up until just a couple years ago. Sheriffs like Joe Arpaio stay in office by marketing themselves to voters as being as cruel to prisoners as possible; it's just another facet of the enduring Southern Strategy. The system is working as intended.
- short_sells_poo 3y ago
  I'd go as far as to say that prisons are a profitable business, and if the prison operators or their cronies can convince the masses that stuffing prisons to the brim is a good idea, that's just more profitable business. I don't think the prison industry or upper class are cruel for cruelty's sake. The American Conservatism is simply convenient to them. I'd go as far as to say that even voters who appear to embrace being cruel to prisoners aren't deliberately trying to be cruel, but are by and large the disenfranchised poor people with zero upward mobility, whose miserable existence is made slightly more bearable by having a class with even fewer privileges than them.
- lynx23 3y ago
  This brings back memories of Tank (1984) which was my first contact with the concept of prison violence as an 8 year old. The movie itself is rather B-ish, but it was still the first time I realized that police dealing with judges and the prison system is a rather horrifying concept which would literally require military force to actually win against...
phendrenad2 3y ago
> The intentions of the ruling class are not to oppress others but merely to protect their own interests You're exactly right. But oppression is a useful tool to protect one's interest. Demoralizing people and showing them that you have them by the balls is an effective tactic. "Oh, you want to come at me? Have you seen our prison system? It's not worth it, not in a thousand years"

afpx 3y ago

There are a lot of other reasons why prisons exist (safety, money, jobs, etc.). One big one: applying power, usually to an weaker group. Cause, that's just what Homo Sapiens do.

skrbjc 3y ago

[flagged]

lynx23 3y ago
Are you implying that a girl would be unable to steal someone's car, or was that an accidentally misandristic comment?
mftrhu 3y ago
> From wikipedia on recidivism "According to an April 2011 report by the Pew Center on the States, the average national recidivism rate for released prisoners is 43%." If 43% of all prisoners are re-arrested after they are released, then you can make a pretty good assumption that they were not committing crime they would have, if they were not locked up. Or you could assume that the current prison system, in the States, is actually making recidivism rates worse by treating its inmates in such an inhumane way - hurt people hurt people. One could discriminate between the two assumptions by comparing its recidivism rates with recidivism rates in the rest of the world. > As you know, though, different crimes are punished in different ways, which makes sense. Different crimes are punished in different ways. In most of the civilized world, punishment ranges from fines to more-or-less harsh limitations of one's freedom of movement. I don't remember corporal punishment being one of the possible consequences for theft.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > One could discriminate between the two assumptions by comparing its recidivism rates with recidivism rates in the rest of the world. Here you go. Looks like the US is not any kind of outlier. Some places do worse. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivism-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivis...
bboygravity 3y ago
Have kids grow up in terrible families (in part due to the government shitting on poors), put them in a cell for how they turn out, torture them and then expect them to become a better person who is ready for "normy life" from the terrible childhood + torturing in jail. The US is probably the only developed country in the world where this line of thinking is accepted as "yep, makes sense, pretty good approach"?

ericmcer 3y ago

Non violent and violent offenders should be treated differently. Hurting someone’s car is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. The author of this article killed someone. Making sure he is comfy is a bit disrespectful to the deceased and their family. I don’t know all the details but it has always seemed a bit messed up that someone can hurt or kill you and your societies main concern would be how to rehabilitate that person.

crooked-v 3y ago
Why do you want people to spend time in prison and not be rehabilitated before release?

IOT_Apprentice 3y ago

Prisons in the USA operate in that fashion.

Aunche 3y ago

If the purpose of prisons was to torture prisoners, then they would beat all prisoners with moderate severity rather than a few prisoners with heavy severity. The system that's working intended in your examples are unions protecting bad officers. It's another example of why we shouldn't have public sector unions.

int_19h 3y ago

The most amazing part is that these people have the gall to call themselves "correction officers". What are they correcting, exactly?

candiodari 3y ago
The state, and judges, refuse to attack their soldiers. And by allowing sadists, they get to pay them slightly less.