4 ms·

Is there a reason, other than capitalism/entrenched interests, that the prison service doesn't have its own in house software? A non profit could perhaps assist

Is there a reason, other than capitalism/entrenched interests, that the prison service doesn't have its own in house software? A non profit could perhaps assist.

nativeit 3y ago
Every component of most American prisons has become a lucrative (frequently exploitative) source of revenue. From selling packs of ramen noodles to charging exorbitant fees to speak to loved ones over the phone, I would be amazed if this wasn’t just one more avenue for entrenched moneyed interests to extract even more profits from struggling families who have been broken apart.
freedomben 3y ago
I'm glad you asked. I work for a non-profit called Ameelio (ameelio.org) that is working on that. We started with free incoming (to the facility) mail (aka letters) and expanded to free video and voice calling, and are currently working on expanding further though I don't want to say exactly what at this point. To answer your question though, yes entrenched interests and lack of competition. When you are sole provider, no matter how broke people's families are they are going to dig deep. Some states also allow a "kickback" system where the department gets a % of the fees collected by the providers. Fortunately some states have made this illegal and more are starting to now that we've shown how corrupt and gross the incumbent situation is, but there's still a way to go. I will also say that I've been impressed with a lot of people in the departments. Many of them don't like the current system either and they think it's wrong, so they've been really helpful/willing to work with us. Related past thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23042558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23042558
- whitemary 3y ago
  so-called "non-profit"
  - dang 3y ago
    It looks like you've been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's not allowed here and we ban accounts that do it, regardless of what they're battling for or against, so please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
woodruffw 3y ago
For one, there isn't a single "prison service" in the US. There are somewhere between 51 and several thousand prison and jail systems, depending on how you count. Profit extraction is one reason, and a large one. However, an equally large one is cruelty: these systems are designed to make prisoners suffer, and public accountability runs counter to that goal.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  jails are also used to force plea deals. see torture island aka rikers
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    Right. The idea that pleas are anything except compelled when they come from the imprisoned is farcical.
    - bsder 3y ago
      Sorry. You shouldn't be able to waive your right to a jury trial. Everyone should go through the trial even when they are dead to rights guilty. The state should have to prove to a jury that they did their job convicting you. Plea deals become implied threats. Take this cheaper deal or we'll throw this massive set of stuff at you. Remember Aaron Swartz? You wipe that out by wiping out plea deals.
      - MandieD 3y ago
        If everyone had to go through a jury trial (which I kind of agree that they should), what's your threshold for allowing them to remain out of jail before trial? How much are you willing to give jurors as a stipend for missing work? How much do you want to spend fitting out new courtrooms? Because if all three are not extremely generous by current US standards, you're going to be forcing innocent/kind of guilty people to sit in jail for years waiting for their trials - we don't have nearly enough judges, jury members or court capacity to give everyone the speedy trial with a jury of their peers.
yyyk 3y ago
At which point the prison service will be responsible for bugs/unimplemented features/support. Often, simply offloading responsibility is worth a lot bureaucratically even if features would be technically identical.
bee_rider 3y ago
I don’t understand why they can’t use, like, Word or notepad and just pass around text files or something like that. I mean, most of the people involved in the prison system have decided to work in a place where the users aren’t there willingly or able to change service providers, so I guess they would trend toward minimal competence, right? The more they can leverage software written by anybody else, the better, I guess.
- themadturk 3y ago
  Well, you need the hardware that will run applications like Word and even Notepad. Those are both Windows apps, and I'm sure the tablets mentioned in this article aren't Windows devices. They include exactly the software the system allows, and stores data in exactly the way the system dictates. They're unlikely to have the freedom to "pass around text files."
vinaypai 3y ago
The root cause is that a huge portion of the US population sees prisons entirely from a punitive point of view. Want to reduce prison sentences? Improve conditions? You're soft on crime!
- troupe 3y ago
  > Improve conditions? It seems like there might be room for improving conditions in ways that will help prevent them from being back in prison later. Education and working in a way that develops skills are two ways that come to mind.
  - crooked-v 3y ago
    There are plenty of people who oppose those, too, because it's time not spent making the prisoners feel bad.
  - thebooktocome 3y ago
    Good luck making that argument to the median voter. The entire conservative wing believes prisoners deserve torture (unless it’s them or their immediate family); half of the center-left is too busy projecting a “tough on crime” image to give much thought about improving conditions. Even if you can prove a non-profit, non-funded program reduces recidivism, if it also happens to make prisoners’ lives marginally better in the process, that’s an immediate no.
  - vinaypai 3y ago
    I agree entirely, but a lot of people don't and just want to increase prison sentences and make prisons harsher.
Eumenes 3y ago
whats wrong with a pen and paper?
- thebooktocome 3y ago
  It requires too much labor for the prison-industrial complex to monitor. Digital files are far easier to automatically censor.

Is there a reason, other than capitalism/entrenched interests, that the prison service doesn't have its own in house software? A non profit could perhaps assist.

nativeit 3y ago

Every component of most American prisons has become a lucrative (frequently exploitative) source of revenue. From selling packs of ramen noodles to charging exorbitant fees to speak to loved ones over the phone, I would be amazed if this wasn’t just one more avenue for entrenched moneyed interests to extract even more profits from struggling families who have been broken apart.

freedomben 3y ago

I'm glad you asked. I work for a non-profit called Ameelio (ameelio.org) that is working on that. We started with free incoming (to the facility) mail (aka letters) and expanded to free video and voice calling, and are currently working on expanding further though I don't want to say exactly what at this point. To answer your question though, yes entrenched interests and lack of competition. When you are sole provider, no matter how broke people's families are they are going to dig deep. Some states also allow a "kickback" system where the department gets a % of the fees collected by the providers. Fortunately some states have made this illegal and more are starting to now that we've shown how corrupt and gross the incumbent situation is, but there's still a way to go. I will also say that I've been impressed with a lot of people in the departments. Many of them don't like the current system either and they think it's wrong, so they've been really helpful/willing to work with us. Related past thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23042558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23042558

whitemary 3y ago
so-called "non-profit"
- dang 3y ago
  It looks like you've been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's not allowed here and we ban accounts that do it, regardless of what they're battling for or against, so please don't. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

woodruffw 3y ago

For one, there isn't a single "prison service" in the US. There are somewhere between 51 and several thousand prison and jail systems, depending on how you count. Profit extraction is one reason, and a large one. However, an equally large one is cruelty: these systems are designed to make prisoners suffer, and public accountability runs counter to that goal.

wahnfrieden 3y ago
jails are also used to force plea deals. see torture island aka rikers
- woodruffw 3y ago
  Right. The idea that pleas are anything except compelled when they come from the imprisoned is farcical.
  - bsder 3y ago
    Sorry. You shouldn't be able to waive your right to a jury trial. Everyone should go through the trial even when they are dead to rights guilty. The state should have to prove to a jury that they did their job convicting you. Plea deals become implied threats. Take this cheaper deal or we'll throw this massive set of stuff at you. Remember Aaron Swartz? You wipe that out by wiping out plea deals.
    - MandieD 3y ago
      If everyone had to go through a jury trial (which I kind of agree that they should), what's your threshold for allowing them to remain out of jail before trial? How much are you willing to give jurors as a stipend for missing work? How much do you want to spend fitting out new courtrooms? Because if all three are not extremely generous by current US standards, you're going to be forcing innocent/kind of guilty people to sit in jail for years waiting for their trials - we don't have nearly enough judges, jury members or court capacity to give everyone the speedy trial with a jury of their peers.

yyyk 3y ago

At which point the prison service will be responsible for bugs/unimplemented features/support. Often, simply offloading responsibility is worth a lot bureaucratically even if features would be technically identical.

bee_rider 3y ago

I don’t understand why they can’t use, like, Word or notepad and just pass around text files or something like that. I mean, most of the people involved in the prison system have decided to work in a place where the users aren’t there willingly or able to change service providers, so I guess they would trend toward minimal competence, right? The more they can leverage software written by anybody else, the better, I guess.

themadturk 3y ago
Well, you need the hardware that will run applications like Word and even Notepad. Those are both Windows apps, and I'm sure the tablets mentioned in this article aren't Windows devices. They include exactly the software the system allows, and stores data in exactly the way the system dictates. They're unlikely to have the freedom to "pass around text files."

vinaypai 3y ago

The root cause is that a huge portion of the US population sees prisons entirely from a punitive point of view. Want to reduce prison sentences? Improve conditions? You're soft on crime!

troupe 3y ago
> Improve conditions? It seems like there might be room for improving conditions in ways that will help prevent them from being back in prison later. Education and working in a way that develops skills are two ways that come to mind.
- crooked-v 3y ago
  There are plenty of people who oppose those, too, because it's time not spent making the prisoners feel bad.
- thebooktocome 3y ago
  Good luck making that argument to the median voter. The entire conservative wing believes prisoners deserve torture (unless it’s them or their immediate family); half of the center-left is too busy projecting a “tough on crime” image to give much thought about improving conditions. Even if you can prove a non-profit, non-funded program reduces recidivism, if it also happens to make prisoners’ lives marginally better in the process, that’s an immediate no.
- vinaypai 3y ago
  I agree entirely, but a lot of people don't and just want to increase prison sentences and make prisons harsher.

Eumenes 3y ago

whats wrong with a pen and paper?

thebooktocome 3y ago
It requires too much labor for the prison-industrial complex to monitor. Digital files are far easier to automatically censor.