3 ms·

I once heard a quote "Better to be possibly thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt", and man oh man, does that ever apply to Musk. I once

I once heard a quote "Better to be possibly thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt", and man oh man, does that ever apply to Musk. I once had a lot of respect for the dude, now I wonder who the actual competent players are at tesla and spacex who have actually got things done, because it's become pretty apparent the emperor has no clothes.

totallyagr33 3y ago
[flagged]
- mulletbum 3y ago
  Are we ignoring his acquisition of Twitter and why he had to buy Twitter even though he didn't want it?
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    It's really hard to argue with people who have purposely chosen to live in a different reality
SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
> I wonder who the actual competent players are at tesla and spacex who have actually got things done For SpaceX, do not wonder, this is known: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwynne_Shotwell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwynne_Shotwell https://gizmodo.com/spacex-nasa-elon-musk-gwynne-shotwell-twitter-1849883327 https://gizmodo.com/spacex-nasa-elon-musk-gwynne-shotwell-tw... https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/gwynne-shotwell-aiming-high-taking-big-risks https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/gwynne-shotwell-aiming... https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-gwynne-shotwell-to-oversee-starship-program/ https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-gwynne-shotwell-to-oversee-...
- panick21_ 3y ago
  The old Shotwell is the reason for all the success anti-Musk line. Classic. Never gets old. No matter that Shotwell or anybody else in the leadership of SpaceX would agree with this take. And Shotwell overseeing the Starship program is just a dumb headline. What happened is that operation in Brownsville was simply integrated into the normal SpaceX structures rather then being a somewhat parallel operation. Shotwell was very involved before and after this administrative change. Neither means that much has changed in terms of how the program is lead technically.
biomcgary 3y ago
I'm not the slightest bit interested in defending Musk, but I do want to point out the difference between technical competence and visionary leadership. Good visionary leadership: 1. creates a big picture, 2. hires competent people to execute, and 3. then gets out of the way. Musk largely succeeds on the first two, but waffles on the third. However, he creates enough fires to distract himself from interfering with all his companies all the time, so his failure on the third point is somewhat self-limiting.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Anybody that even remotely believes that Musk 'then gets out of the way' is just delusional. Literally any study of Musk would tell you the exact opposite is true. He is well known to have 3-4h long discussions with engineering teams going into extreme detail (and doing so until into the night) and making choices and taking responsibility when they fail. If anything is true about Musk then its that he is the opposite of 'getting out of the way'. > so his failure on the third point is somewhat self-limiting. Or what most people who study the subject actually believe, that him 'not getting out of the way' is actually why the companies are successful. Bezos took the get out of the way approach and BO has spend like 10+ billion with no revenue and will never be profitable, while SpaceX is a highly successful company.
mrguyorama 3y ago
It's important to note he was opening his mouth and making a fool of himself to those who knew what they were talking about well before Twitter. I don't understand why so many people ignored a plethora of bad takes that should have been clear.
machdiamonds 3y ago
Seems like Musk is one of the competent players at Tesla and SpaceX according to John Carmack, Jim Keller, Tom Mueller, and others: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
- dwaltrip 3y ago
  This is an incredible link. I can’t believe I haven’t seen it before. I had a rough sense that this was the case, but those quotes (and sources) make it undeniably clear. [Insert standard caveat about his wide array of harmful and toxic behavior]

totallyagr33 3y ago

[flagged]

mulletbum 3y ago
Are we ignoring his acquisition of Twitter and why he had to buy Twitter even though he didn't want it?
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  It's really hard to argue with people who have purposely chosen to live in a different reality

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago

> I wonder who the actual competent players are at tesla and spacex who have actually got things done For SpaceX, do not wonder, this is known: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwynne_Shotwell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwynne_Shotwell https://gizmodo.com/spacex-nasa-elon-musk-gwynne-shotwell-twitter-1849883327 https://gizmodo.com/spacex-nasa-elon-musk-gwynne-shotwell-tw... https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/gwynne-shotwell-aiming-high-taking-big-risks https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/gwynne-shotwell-aiming... https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-gwynne-shotwell-to-oversee-starship-program/ https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-gwynne-shotwell-to-oversee-...

panick21_ 3y ago
The old Shotwell is the reason for all the success anti-Musk line. Classic. Never gets old. No matter that Shotwell or anybody else in the leadership of SpaceX would agree with this take. And Shotwell overseeing the Starship program is just a dumb headline. What happened is that operation in Brownsville was simply integrated into the normal SpaceX structures rather then being a somewhat parallel operation. Shotwell was very involved before and after this administrative change. Neither means that much has changed in terms of how the program is lead technically.

biomcgary 3y ago

I'm not the slightest bit interested in defending Musk, but I do want to point out the difference between technical competence and visionary leadership. Good visionary leadership: 1. creates a big picture, 2. hires competent people to execute, and 3. then gets out of the way. Musk largely succeeds on the first two, but waffles on the third. However, he creates enough fires to distract himself from interfering with all his companies all the time, so his failure on the third point is somewhat self-limiting.

panick21_ 3y ago
Anybody that even remotely believes that Musk 'then gets out of the way' is just delusional. Literally any study of Musk would tell you the exact opposite is true. He is well known to have 3-4h long discussions with engineering teams going into extreme detail (and doing so until into the night) and making choices and taking responsibility when they fail. If anything is true about Musk then its that he is the opposite of 'getting out of the way'. > so his failure on the third point is somewhat self-limiting. Or what most people who study the subject actually believe, that him 'not getting out of the way' is actually why the companies are successful. Bezos took the get out of the way approach and BO has spend like 10+ billion with no revenue and will never be profitable, while SpaceX is a highly successful company.

mrguyorama 3y ago

It's important to note he was opening his mouth and making a fool of himself to those who knew what they were talking about well before Twitter. I don't understand why so many people ignored a plethora of bad takes that should have been clear.

machdiamonds 3y ago

Seems like Musk is one of the competent players at Tesla and SpaceX according to John Carmack, Jim Keller, Tom Mueller, and others: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...

dwaltrip 3y ago
This is an incredible link. I can’t believe I haven’t seen it before. I had a rough sense that this was the case, but those quotes (and sources) make it undeniably clear. [Insert standard caveat about his wide array of harmful and toxic behavior]