4 ms·

> Not even a majority now, retrospectively, even wanted to leave the EU. There was a democratic vote in which a majority wanted to leave. Until such a vote is

> Not even a majority now, retrospectively, even wanted to leave the EU. There was a democratic vote in which a majority wanted to leave. Until such a vote is repeated, this is the current state of things. If there was a majority of people in the UK that wanted to join, there’s nothing stopping them from doing so, the EU would probably happily welcome the UK back, albeit on different terms. You can hate your government all you want, but this is what the majority wanted and supposedly currently wants.

lnxg33k1 3y ago
Meh it’s not that joining and leaving treaties is like having a picnic, while I agree with the democratic sentiment of your message I also think that it would be crazy to allow any majority dictate schizophrenic policies, the difference was under 4%, and it triggered a generational change, is that fair?
- ta1243 3y ago
  It's crazy that if I press ctrl-q my web browser warns me I'm closing so many windows/tabs, but there's no such "are you sure" when it comes to such a major irrevocable decision
- laratied 3y ago
  Of course not but this is a perfect example of why this type of democracy is a terrible idea. Putting something like that to a vote was itself insane and stupid.
  - lnxg33k1 3y ago
    I don’t think putting it to vote was stupid, but enacting a generational change over a <4% was
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
The majority did not vote for leaving the customs union. We have Vote leave representatives swearing they dont want to leave the single market.
tailspin2019 3y ago
What you’re saying is true. And what I said is also true :)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jodrellblank 3y ago
> "There was a democratic vote" Somehow this feels like that XKCD alt text[1] "I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express." If the best thing anyone can say in defense of Brexit is that it was "a democratic vote", that is an implicit concession that there is nothing else worth saying in its favour. There were 100 people on the bus, only 30 bothered to vote, 16 of those voted to drive the bus off a cliff and kill everyone, and now you are compelled to agree with that course of action because "it was a democratic vote"[2] and anything else would be anti-Democratic and therefore bad. It's pretty clear that there was a lot wrong with the vote (it was said to be non-binding then was treated as binding, for example, which may have affected how many people bothered to vote), and the media around it - claims made which have not panned out and the people who made the claims are not being held accountable for their misrepresentation, or the messaging around "control of borders" which (a) we already had, and (b) post-Brexit has more immigration not less, in fact record high levels[3], and etc. [1] https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/ [2] see also https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/tscc3e5eujrsEeFN4/well-kept-gardens-die-by-pacifism https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/tscc3e5eujrsEeFN4/well-kept-... where internet communities drive the bus off the cliff and die due to fear of being called "intolerant". [3] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63743259 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63743259
- yyyk 3y ago
  The UK had 3 different votes on this (the original referendum + 2 elections after), the UK government promised to follow the referendum again and again, and having a poor policy is hardly 'killing everyone'. When push comes to shove, British Remainers simply lost the vote, and Corbyn screwed them over and over afterwards.
  - jodrellblank 3y ago
    See? You have nothing better to say about it than "you simply lost, ha ha". You aren't even trying to argue that anything has improved. (Even Nigel Farage has given up trying to argue that anything has improved!) You don’t think it’s weird that a majority were in favour of “a democratic vote” and a majority were in favour of the coronation of a new unelected monarch? Or the difference between a Democratic vote and having rules “pushed on us” by Europe’s votes? Or how people in London are closer to Calais than they are to Glasgow and do more trade to Europe but some how see it as us/them?) (And you are even agreeing that we all got screwed over - but you are somehow blaming a guy from 7 years ago who didn't get elected, rather than the Conservative government in power whose demonstrated behaviour is screwing the ordinary people over and over, decade after decade).

lnxg33k1 3y ago

Meh it’s not that joining and leaving treaties is like having a picnic, while I agree with the democratic sentiment of your message I also think that it would be crazy to allow any majority dictate schizophrenic policies, the difference was under 4%, and it triggered a generational change, is that fair?

ta1243 3y ago
It's crazy that if I press ctrl-q my web browser warns me I'm closing so many windows/tabs, but there's no such "are you sure" when it comes to such a major irrevocable decision
laratied 3y ago
Of course not but this is a perfect example of why this type of democracy is a terrible idea. Putting something like that to a vote was itself insane and stupid.
- lnxg33k1 3y ago
  I don’t think putting it to vote was stupid, but enacting a generational change over a <4% was

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

The majority did not vote for leaving the customs union. We have Vote leave representatives swearing they dont want to leave the single market.

tailspin2019 3y ago

What you’re saying is true. And what I said is also true :)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jodrellblank 3y ago

> "There was a democratic vote" Somehow this feels like that XKCD alt text[1] "I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express." If the best thing anyone can say in defense of Brexit is that it was "a democratic vote", that is an implicit concession that there is nothing else worth saying in its favour. There were 100 people on the bus, only 30 bothered to vote, 16 of those voted to drive the bus off a cliff and kill everyone, and now you are compelled to agree with that course of action because "it was a democratic vote"[2] and anything else would be anti-Democratic and therefore bad. It's pretty clear that there was a lot wrong with the vote (it was said to be non-binding then was treated as binding, for example, which may have affected how many people bothered to vote), and the media around it - claims made which have not panned out and the people who made the claims are not being held accountable for their misrepresentation, or the messaging around "control of borders" which (a) we already had, and (b) post-Brexit has more immigration not less, in fact record high levels[3], and etc. [1] https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/ [2] see also https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/tscc3e5eujrsEeFN4/well-kept-gardens-die-by-pacifism https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/tscc3e5eujrsEeFN4/well-kept-... where internet communities drive the bus off the cliff and die due to fear of being called "intolerant". [3] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63743259 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63743259

yyyk 3y ago
The UK had 3 different votes on this (the original referendum + 2 elections after), the UK government promised to follow the referendum again and again, and having a poor policy is hardly 'killing everyone'. When push comes to shove, British Remainers simply lost the vote, and Corbyn screwed them over and over afterwards.
- jodrellblank 3y ago
  See? You have nothing better to say about it than "you simply lost, ha ha". You aren't even trying to argue that anything has improved. (Even Nigel Farage has given up trying to argue that anything has improved!) You don’t think it’s weird that a majority were in favour of “a democratic vote” and a majority were in favour of the coronation of a new unelected monarch? Or the difference between a Democratic vote and having rules “pushed on us” by Europe’s votes? Or how people in London are closer to Calais than they are to Glasgow and do more trade to Europe but some how see it as us/them?) (And you are even agreeing that we all got screwed over - but you are somehow blaming a guy from 7 years ago who didn't get elected, rather than the Conservative government in power whose demonstrated behaviour is screwing the ordinary people over and over, decade after decade).