4 ms·

Not sure if you are aware how small most European countries are: Norway 5.4 Sweden 10.4 Denmark 5.8 Finland 5.5 Estonia 1.3 Lithuania 2.8 Latvia 1.8 Some num

Not sure if you are aware how small most European countries are: Norway 5.4 Sweden 10.4 Denmark 5.8 Finland 5.5 Estonia 1.3 Lithuania 2.8 Latvia 1.8 Some numbers in millions vs Ukraine 43.79 Russia 143.4

surgical_fire 3y ago
Yeah, this takes a different figure when you consider the EU block as a whole, instead of measuring member states in isolation. Every member state has a binding agreement of mutual protection.
- lesuorac 3y ago
  If the EU is a mutal-defense agreement why are all these EU members trying to also join NATO?
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > If the EU is a mutal-defense agreement why are all these EU members trying to also join NATO? Because mutual defense agreements and other joint security agreements aren’t mutually exclusive, and NATO has an integrated military command and more nuclear powers as members.
  - surgical_fire 3y ago
    Are they all trying to join NATO? Or some of them are willing to join NATO, for their own geopolitical reasons? And the mutual-defense agreement is not a question of "if". It is a binding agreement. It's a fact.
    - lesuorac 3y ago
      I don't think Finland has high confidence that the binding agreement will save them. If you look at the polling for if Finland should join Nato there is a huge spike after 2022 [1]. Even Sweden which has a buffer between it and Russia also had a increase in polls [2]. Not that anybody does this poll, but you won't see a spike in if say Canada should join the EU. The point being, these countries do not trust that the EU will protect them. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland%E2%80%93NATO_relations#Polling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland%E2%80%93NATO_relations... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden%E2%80%93NATO_relations#Polls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden%E2%80%93NATO_relations#...
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      Such agreements only force-project the illusion of a larger, unified entity as opposition to anybody who might act against them. It is a deterrent at best. It has yet to be witnessed what hilarity ensues when any of them simply refuse to answer the call.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
    Parent says "Every member state has a binding agreement of mutual protection" Emphasis added. This is not the same as "the EU is a mutal-defense agreement". The EU is a lot of things. I just googled "eu mutual defence" and got authoritative links such as https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/mutual-defence-clause.htm https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/mutual-d... IDK, could you have googled that?
SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
> Not sure if you are aware how small most European countries are The thing is, are you aware that most European countries are also aware of this? What do you think that they have done in response? Some kind of "unity" maybe ? There's good reason why the EU is regarded as powerful, when Denmark isn't. There's good reason why Estonia joined, and Ukraine would like to. It's not just small countries banding together though. Poland, 38m people was also keen to join.

surgical_fire 3y ago

Yeah, this takes a different figure when you consider the EU block as a whole, instead of measuring member states in isolation. Every member state has a binding agreement of mutual protection.

lesuorac 3y ago
If the EU is a mutal-defense agreement why are all these EU members trying to also join NATO?
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > If the EU is a mutal-defense agreement why are all these EU members trying to also join NATO? Because mutual defense agreements and other joint security agreements aren’t mutually exclusive, and NATO has an integrated military command and more nuclear powers as members.
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  Are they all trying to join NATO? Or some of them are willing to join NATO, for their own geopolitical reasons? And the mutual-defense agreement is not a question of "if". It is a binding agreement. It's a fact.
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    I don't think Finland has high confidence that the binding agreement will save them. If you look at the polling for if Finland should join Nato there is a huge spike after 2022 [1]. Even Sweden which has a buffer between it and Russia also had a increase in polls [2]. Not that anybody does this poll, but you won't see a spike in if say Canada should join the EU. The point being, these countries do not trust that the EU will protect them. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland%E2%80%93NATO_relations#Polling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland%E2%80%93NATO_relations... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden%E2%80%93NATO_relations#Polls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden%E2%80%93NATO_relations#...
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    Such agreements only force-project the illusion of a larger, unified entity as opposition to anybody who might act against them. It is a deterrent at best. It has yet to be witnessed what hilarity ensues when any of them simply refuse to answer the call.
- SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  Parent says "Every member state has a binding agreement of mutual protection" Emphasis added. This is not the same as "the EU is a mutal-defense agreement". The EU is a lot of things. I just googled "eu mutual defence" and got authoritative links such as https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/mutual-defence-clause.htm https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/mutual-d... IDK, could you have googled that?

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago

> Not sure if you are aware how small most European countries are The thing is, are you aware that most European countries are also aware of this? What do you think that they have done in response? Some kind of "unity" maybe ? There's good reason why the EU is regarded as powerful, when Denmark isn't. There's good reason why Estonia joined, and Ukraine would like to. It's not just small countries banding together though. Poland, 38m people was also keen to join.