4 ms·

I agree. I'm disappointed in particular by Labour's approach to this too. Similarly they (Labour) are not taking a strong enough position on honestly recognisi

by tailspin2019 3y ago

I agree. I'm disappointed in particular by Labour's approach to this too. Similarly they (Labour) are not taking a strong enough position on honestly recognising the state of Brexit because they don't want to alienate their potential pro-brexit voters, nor are they taking a strong stand on a number of other policies which I think they should be. The conservatives have lurched so far right that I can't help but feel that Labour is having to move in that direction too just to have a fighting chance of winning the next election. But this makes them not an effective enough opposition at the moment. Their strategy is clearly working - see uptick in pro-brexit votes in recent local elections - but I'm not sure at what cost... So overall, personally, I'm just extremely disillusioned with all political parties right now. We have to recognise that we brought this on ourselves, collectively - such is the nature of democracy - but that doesn't help alleviate my current sense of despair!

kmlx 3y ago
labour doesn't surprise me one bit. but i am surprised by the liberal democrats. i don't really understand why they keep calling themselves "liberal" when for the past years they have been anything but liberal.
- effie 3y ago
  > However, you should know that this [liberal democracy] has precisely nothing to do with the Liberal Democrats in the UK. The Liberal Democrats are so named because they're the result of a merger between the Liberal Party and the Social Democratic Party. The best combination of the names was "Liberal Democrats." -- cpast https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/7812 https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/7812
- mrbungie 3y ago
  That's a meme in politics, the words in party names have nothing to do with the ideas they commonly represent. Names in this space just work according to the "laws" of marketing.
- tremon 3y ago
  The term liberal is only a magnitude, it's not a vector. In common parlance, people understand it to mean social liberalism, i.e. a proponent of personal freedoms; but in most parties, it's much more likely to refer to economic liberalism, i.e. laissez-faire market policies. That said, I don't know enough about the UK's political parties to know along what axis the Lib Dems consider themselves to be "liberal".
blibble 3y ago
> I agree. I'm disappointed in particular by Labour's approach to this too. why would you expect labour to be better? they are more authoratitian than the Tories they brought in the Identity Register, the Terrorism Act (90 day detention without charge), the RIP Act (forced decryption), attempted to remove the right to trial by jury and the defence of double jeopardy along with countless more
- tailspin2019 3y ago
  Fair point
automatic6131 3y ago
>The conservatives have lurched so far right that I can't help but feel that Labour is having to move in that direction too just to have a fighting chance of winning the next election. Oh no, political parties moving in response to the expressed will of the general public in a democracy. What an outrage! How dare a party in a democratic system change its policy to match voter preferences. Won't someone think of the people that know better??
- myrmi 3y ago
  > Oh no, political parties moving in response to the expressed will of the general public in a democracy. Consider a very simple model of a two party system, expressing views on one left/right axis. Members of the population vote for the political party that is closest to their views on that axis. Political parties want to win as many votes as possible. Under that model and those assumptions, if one party moves in a particular direction, the 'correct' behaviour for the other party is to move in that direction also to capture more votes, regardless of what the underlying 'will' of the general voting public is.
- blitzar 3y ago
  > political parties moving in response to the expressed will of the general public in a democracy They dont care about the people, they are simply occupying the political ground that has been abandoned by the other party.

kmlx 3y ago

labour doesn't surprise me one bit. but i am surprised by the liberal democrats. i don't really understand why they keep calling themselves "liberal" when for the past years they have been anything but liberal.

effie 3y ago
> However, you should know that this [liberal democracy] has precisely nothing to do with the Liberal Democrats in the UK. The Liberal Democrats are so named because they're the result of a merger between the Liberal Party and the Social Democratic Party. The best combination of the names was "Liberal Democrats." -- cpast https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/7812 https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/7812
mrbungie 3y ago
That's a meme in politics, the words in party names have nothing to do with the ideas they commonly represent. Names in this space just work according to the "laws" of marketing.
tremon 3y ago
The term liberal is only a magnitude, it's not a vector. In common parlance, people understand it to mean social liberalism, i.e. a proponent of personal freedoms; but in most parties, it's much more likely to refer to economic liberalism, i.e. laissez-faire market policies. That said, I don't know enough about the UK's political parties to know along what axis the Lib Dems consider themselves to be "liberal".

blibble 3y ago

> I agree. I'm disappointed in particular by Labour's approach to this too. why would you expect labour to be better? they are more authoratitian than the Tories they brought in the Identity Register, the Terrorism Act (90 day detention without charge), the RIP Act (forced decryption), attempted to remove the right to trial by jury and the defence of double jeopardy along with countless more

tailspin2019 3y ago
Fair point

automatic6131 3y ago

>The conservatives have lurched so far right that I can't help but feel that Labour is having to move in that direction too just to have a fighting chance of winning the next election. Oh no, political parties moving in response to the expressed will of the general public in a democracy. What an outrage! How dare a party in a democratic system change its policy to match voter preferences. Won't someone think of the people that know better??

myrmi 3y ago
> Oh no, political parties moving in response to the expressed will of the general public in a democracy. Consider a very simple model of a two party system, expressing views on one left/right axis. Members of the population vote for the political party that is closest to their views on that axis. Political parties want to win as many votes as possible. Under that model and those assumptions, if one party moves in a particular direction, the 'correct' behaviour for the other party is to move in that direction also to capture more votes, regardless of what the underlying 'will' of the general voting public is.
blitzar 3y ago
> political parties moving in response to the expressed will of the general public in a democracy They dont care about the people, they are simply occupying the political ground that has been abandoned by the other party.