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> PM2.5 levels in Tokyo yesterday were like 6x WHO limits and absolutely no one on the local news was talking about it What are you talking about? Localities s

by rtpg 3y ago

> PM2.5 levels in Tokyo yesterday were like 6x WHO limits and absolutely no one on the local news was talking about it What are you talking about? Localities sent a smog alert, made announcements on the speaker, and there was a whole thing. It was a particularly hot day as well. I don’t have that many reference points to be fair, but almost every time I’ve checked general air quality (at least according to the first site that describes AQI) for Paris has always been worse than Tokyo. Of course things can be massively improved. There is a lot of noise pollution. But the conversations are relative to other places. My reference points are limited but on points like air pollution or smoking other major cities fare worse IMO. Though this is all super subjective, and even within a city various parts of it have a vastly different vibe.

kqr 3y ago
Air quality also wildly varies between streets, so it's hard to compare blindly across cities. Walking for just a minute down a side street can massively improve air quality compared to the main street.
darkteflon 3y ago
It’s been like this for days, it will continue into next week. We had no announcements where I am, none of the news broadcasts I checked (and I checked a few) mentioned it. The Tokyo metro site wouldn’t even load on my phone. Glad you got a heads up. Don’t really care what Paris is like, tbh. Shit air is shit air. Saying it’s shitter somewhere else isn’t super compelling. The whole point of my original comment was that people elevate Japanese cities in ways they don’t deserve.
- SapporoChris 3y ago
  https://www.iqair.com/japan/tokyo https://www.iqair.com/japan/tokyo Site has Historic air quality graph for Tokyo and the daily chart shows the air quality is very good.
  - darkteflon 3y ago
    EDIT: To clarify, if you checked accuweather.com yesterday morning you would’ve seen a pollution map flooded red, AQI 142. Yep I know - but did you check how many monitoring sites they use and where they’re placed? It’s not representative of the actual experience of living here. If you’re walking, or cycling, you’re constantly in extreme close proximity to tailpipe emissions from cars and diesel trucks. The city also famously has lots of construction activity, almost always also belching diesel.
    - SapporoChris 3y ago
      Yes, the number of pollution monitoring sites in Tokyo is quite extensive. They measure PM2.5,PM10,O3,NO2,SO2,and CO. https://aqicn.org/map/tokyo/ https://aqicn.org/map/tokyo/ This site keeps a detailed history. I've witnessed the construction in Tokyo. I'm greatly impressed by the steps they take to monitor and reduce impact. I've seen many sites with noise monitors displaying in decibels the current noise inside and outside the construction site. When a building across the street from my apartment was renovated I was sent detailed construction plans. The work was scheduled so that any noise would never interrupt sleep or evening relaxation. Also include was how the sunlight and shade from the new construction would change. Included was steps to take if one wished to protest the construction.
- rtpg 3y ago
  I do not know what to tell you, I was informed through like 3 different ways. I think “Tokyo has better air than other metropolises” is a kinda verifiable thing, and if you grant that it’s kinda normal to consider that! There’s a reason lots of people end up here from other countries, and it’s not the pay!
- numpad0 3y ago
  So where you're mistaken, or are not in accordance with the official narrative, is that the pollution must have to do with severe local negligence. Here[1] is simulation results that suggest a different story. 1: https://pm25.jp/m/230519/011/ https://pm25.jp/m/230519/011/
  - darkteflon 3y ago
    Not entirely sure what you’re saying but I’m literally, actually, living here and have been for 20 years. I’ve lived all over Tokyo and indeed elsewhere in Japan. I know what the air is like where people are actually living and working, as opposed to wherever the monitors happen to be placed. There is loads of research showing a marked drop-off in the danger to humans from vehicle emissions as you move away from the kerbside. Even walking on the far side of a wide curb can significantly improve your prospects. My point here is that people are living in extreme proximity to tailpipe emissions, all day long. It is a perfect candidate - perhaps the best candidate city in the world given how much else it gets staggeringly right on urban design - for strict tailpipe emissions regulations. Ban diesel trucks, introduce congestion charges, incentivise the adoption of EVs. That is unlikely to happen, however, as Toyota in particular famously is one of the biggest global lobbyists for the internal combustion engine - a fact covered numerous times at length here on HN. That’s a fascinating political and economic story in its own right and one I’d encourage people to read up on. Tokyo’s air quality is a story of corporate and political greed. Nobody does anything about it because no one talks about it.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  > Don’t really care what Paris is like, tbh. Shit air is shit air. Saying it’s shitter somewhere else isn’t super compelling. Shitty is always relative, especially if you're comparing policy decisions.

by rtpg 3y ago

kqr 3y ago

Air quality also wildly varies between streets, so it's hard to compare blindly across cities. Walking for just a minute down a side street can massively improve air quality compared to the main street.

darkteflon 3y ago

It’s been like this for days, it will continue into next week. We had no announcements where I am, none of the news broadcasts I checked (and I checked a few) mentioned it. The Tokyo metro site wouldn’t even load on my phone. Glad you got a heads up. Don’t really care what Paris is like, tbh. Shit air is shit air. Saying it’s shitter somewhere else isn’t super compelling. The whole point of my original comment was that people elevate Japanese cities in ways they don’t deserve.

SapporoChris 3y ago
https://www.iqair.com/japan/tokyo https://www.iqair.com/japan/tokyo Site has Historic air quality graph for Tokyo and the daily chart shows the air quality is very good.
- darkteflon 3y ago
  EDIT: To clarify, if you checked accuweather.com yesterday morning you would’ve seen a pollution map flooded red, AQI 142. Yep I know - but did you check how many monitoring sites they use and where they’re placed? It’s not representative of the actual experience of living here. If you’re walking, or cycling, you’re constantly in extreme close proximity to tailpipe emissions from cars and diesel trucks. The city also famously has lots of construction activity, almost always also belching diesel.
  - SapporoChris 3y ago
    Yes, the number of pollution monitoring sites in Tokyo is quite extensive. They measure PM2.5,PM10,O3,NO2,SO2,and CO. https://aqicn.org/map/tokyo/ https://aqicn.org/map/tokyo/ This site keeps a detailed history. I've witnessed the construction in Tokyo. I'm greatly impressed by the steps they take to monitor and reduce impact. I've seen many sites with noise monitors displaying in decibels the current noise inside and outside the construction site. When a building across the street from my apartment was renovated I was sent detailed construction plans. The work was scheduled so that any noise would never interrupt sleep or evening relaxation. Also include was how the sunlight and shade from the new construction would change. Included was steps to take if one wished to protest the construction.
rtpg 3y ago
I do not know what to tell you, I was informed through like 3 different ways. I think “Tokyo has better air than other metropolises” is a kinda verifiable thing, and if you grant that it’s kinda normal to consider that! There’s a reason lots of people end up here from other countries, and it’s not the pay!
numpad0 3y ago
So where you're mistaken, or are not in accordance with the official narrative, is that the pollution must have to do with severe local negligence. Here[1] is simulation results that suggest a different story. 1: https://pm25.jp/m/230519/011/ https://pm25.jp/m/230519/011/
- darkteflon 3y ago
  Not entirely sure what you’re saying but I’m literally, actually, living here and have been for 20 years. I’ve lived all over Tokyo and indeed elsewhere in Japan. I know what the air is like where people are actually living and working, as opposed to wherever the monitors happen to be placed. There is loads of research showing a marked drop-off in the danger to humans from vehicle emissions as you move away from the kerbside. Even walking on the far side of a wide curb can significantly improve your prospects. My point here is that people are living in extreme proximity to tailpipe emissions, all day long. It is a perfect candidate - perhaps the best candidate city in the world given how much else it gets staggeringly right on urban design - for strict tailpipe emissions regulations. Ban diesel trucks, introduce congestion charges, incentivise the adoption of EVs. That is unlikely to happen, however, as Toyota in particular famously is one of the biggest global lobbyists for the internal combustion engine - a fact covered numerous times at length here on HN. That’s a fascinating political and economic story in its own right and one I’d encourage people to read up on. Tokyo’s air quality is a story of corporate and political greed. Nobody does anything about it because no one talks about it.
pessimizer 3y ago
> Don’t really care what Paris is like, tbh. Shit air is shit air. Saying it’s shitter somewhere else isn’t super compelling. Shitty is always relative, especially if you're comparing policy decisions.