4 ms·

Can you provide any sources? Or is this just an emotion driven as hominem attack on him?

by nerdchum 3y ago

youngNed 3y ago
Can you read the article?
- nerdchum 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - gambiting 3y ago
    >>the article itself is an emotion driven ad hominem attack on Musk. How so? Please explain. >>you should look at yourself. What was it about ad hominem?
    - nerdchum 3y ago
      would you say that article is fair to Elon? does it present numerous sides and possibilities for why Elon does the things that the article is attacking him for? Or does the article present a singular interpretation for Elon's behavior?
      - gambiting 3y ago
        >>would you say that article is fair to Elon? So if you're describing someone's fascist behaviour, you now need to be fair to them? I'm sorry I didn't realize we have to find and explain the reasoning for someone's insane conspiracy theories - I guess next time Musk tweets that the moon landing was fake or some other crap, we'll have to find a reason why he thinks that, before being able to point out how stupid that is? >>does it present numerous sides and possibilities for why Elon does the things that the article is attacking him for? I'm really struggling to see how any of this is an attack. Is describing Erdogan's totalitarian practices also an attack on him? Or is it just when you don't preempt the article with a whole story as to why Erdogan behaves the way he does? >>Or does the article present a singular interpretation for Elon's behavior? Sure, it does. Like with any other article, you can read it and come up with a different conclusion, this is what the comments section is actually for. What isn't helpful is coming here and saying the whole article is an attack so should be dismissed - ok, cool, if you think Musk's general behaviour isn't leaning toward fascism lately then please explain why you think so, again, that's why we're here - to discuss.
        nerdchum 3y ago
        An unbiased news article presents the facts and leaves interpretations out of it or provides several possible interpretations for the facts. This article presents a singular interpretation in a demonizing way. If you're not able to separate this from propaganda then it's very unfortunate.
        gambiting 3y ago
        >>This article presents a singular interpretation in a demonizing way. It's an editorial not a news article, I think maybe you got confused as to what this is. If you read an article in the Economist then it's also exactly this - it's an opinion piece. If you want a balanced viewpoint then read about it on the BBC website. And I feel like I have to repeat it again - describing fascist behaviour for what it is, isn't demonizing. If you have alternative explanations for any of Musk's statements then I encourage you - yet again - to please share them. >>If you're not able to separate this from propaganda then it's very unfortunate. I think you literally can't even legitimately consider the possibility that Elon Musk is genuienly slipping into fascism and you will accept any explanation other than the obvious one.
        drcongo 3y ago
        "It didn't also present the argument that the earth could be flat, therefore this encyclopaedia is propaganda demonising me."
        nerdchum 3y ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        nerdchum 3y ago
        you have to be very careful not to mix up possible interpretations with impossible interpretations if you're trying to find the truth. otherwise you make your problem space infinite
  - youngNed 3y ago
    I asked if you could read the article? Literally thats all i did? A while back I made a decision to stay well clear of any Musk related discourse as it generally attracts... not the best people. I kinda wish I had remembered that advice to myself now
    - Nathanba 3y ago
      Yes but you didn't actually ask because you wanted to know if he read the article. You asked as a form of attack.
      - youngNed 3y ago
        Fuck me, but you lot are hard work. Out.
      - gambiting 3y ago
        >>You asked as a form of attack. Mate, you're turning this into a joke now. Get a grip.
  - epakai 3y ago
    He has a long record of bad behavior. It's not a secret. Each video below includes a link to a google doc of sources (tweets, articles, whatever), but it's not terribly well organized. I think you have to be completely ignorant of Musk's actions to think he's just the victim of a media conspiracy. Sure he's associated with massive, probably overall good projects, but that doesn't make his individual actions good, nor does the success of those projects stem directly from him. Various "Some More News" videos. Humor, vulgar speech, talking about Musk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Zoy-it4cY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Zoy-it4cY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlL4xvn6xWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlL4xvn6xWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Y7U4LOTYY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Y7U4LOTYY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9MO18F5Wi8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9MO18F5Wi8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pNL7MlUpmI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pNL7MlUpmI
    - nerdchum 3y ago
      > he has a long record of bad behavior. whether that's true or not he also has a long record of good behavior. starlink to Ukraine, providing power to children's hospitals, working to make the human race multi-planetary, trying to end reliance on gasoline... and on and on focusing the dialogue on bad behavior which may or may not be true instead of trying to interpret his behavior in a positive, neutral, or accurate light is the definition of trying to demonize someone
      - epakai 3y ago
        Musk is responsible for his own behavior. The things you use to bolster his reputation are the actions of much larger groups that Musk exerts some control over. I'll take his direct actions when judging his character.
        nerdchum 3y ago
        Lol, his money, his vision, his management, his time ok that's fine you can keep demonizing him.
  - Veen 3y ago
    > article itself is an emotion driven ad hominem attack on Musk No it isn't. I'm no great fan of Nick Cohen, but this article is at least well-argued enough to require as serious response, not a lazy dismissal. Cohen proposes a framework within which to interpret Musk's behavior and then provides any number of examples that support his interpretation, alongside historical parallels. Personally, I'm more in the "Musk is a prick" camp than the "Musk is a proto-fascist" camp. (Plus, please review what ad hominem means. It doesn't mean "saying nasty things about people I like" )
gambiting 3y ago
.....literally the very article we're commenting on? Or you can go to his twitter account, no need for reading opinion peaces, just read what the man says.
- Nathanba 3y ago
  yes but the article is terrible nonsense. Musk also allowed far left wing people back on. Secondly not risking being booted out of an entire country is kind of the default business decision, you are asking of him things that practically no company on the planet will do. You don't see Apple leaving China or Blizzard leaving China over chinese repressions. But because Elon Musk dared to go against traditional leftwing mass media, now we have to deal with these attack articles and its followers who get captured by their content.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    ...I feel like you read maybe the first two paragraphs of the article? There's a lot more to it than just his stance on Turkey. >> But because Elon Musk dared to go against traditional leftwing mass media The what now? I'm not american so I literally have no idea what that means, and I find the way americans use left/right to be confusing and not how the rest of the world uses it. Please explain.

Can you provide any sources? Or is this just an emotion driven as hominem attack on him?

youngNed 3y ago

Can you read the article?

nerdchum 3y ago
[flagged]
- gambiting 3y ago
  >>the article itself is an emotion driven ad hominem attack on Musk. How so? Please explain. >>you should look at yourself. What was it about ad hominem?
  - nerdchum 3y ago
    would you say that article is fair to Elon? does it present numerous sides and possibilities for why Elon does the things that the article is attacking him for? Or does the article present a singular interpretation for Elon's behavior?
    - gambiting 3y ago
      >>would you say that article is fair to Elon? So if you're describing someone's fascist behaviour, you now need to be fair to them? I'm sorry I didn't realize we have to find and explain the reasoning for someone's insane conspiracy theories - I guess next time Musk tweets that the moon landing was fake or some other crap, we'll have to find a reason why he thinks that, before being able to point out how stupid that is? >>does it present numerous sides and possibilities for why Elon does the things that the article is attacking him for? I'm really struggling to see how any of this is an attack. Is describing Erdogan's totalitarian practices also an attack on him? Or is it just when you don't preempt the article with a whole story as to why Erdogan behaves the way he does? >>Or does the article present a singular interpretation for Elon's behavior? Sure, it does. Like with any other article, you can read it and come up with a different conclusion, this is what the comments section is actually for. What isn't helpful is coming here and saying the whole article is an attack so should be dismissed - ok, cool, if you think Musk's general behaviour isn't leaning toward fascism lately then please explain why you think so, again, that's why we're here - to discuss.
      - nerdchum 3y ago
        An unbiased news article presents the facts and leaves interpretations out of it or provides several possible interpretations for the facts. This article presents a singular interpretation in a demonizing way. If you're not able to separate this from propaganda then it's very unfortunate.
        gambiting 3y ago
        >>This article presents a singular interpretation in a demonizing way. It's an editorial not a news article, I think maybe you got confused as to what this is. If you read an article in the Economist then it's also exactly this - it's an opinion piece. If you want a balanced viewpoint then read about it on the BBC website. And I feel like I have to repeat it again - describing fascist behaviour for what it is, isn't demonizing. If you have alternative explanations for any of Musk's statements then I encourage you - yet again - to please share them. >>If you're not able to separate this from propaganda then it's very unfortunate. I think you literally can't even legitimately consider the possibility that Elon Musk is genuienly slipping into fascism and you will accept any explanation other than the obvious one.
        drcongo 3y ago
        "It didn't also present the argument that the earth could be flat, therefore this encyclopaedia is propaganda demonising me."
        nerdchum 3y ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        nerdchum 3y ago
        you have to be very careful not to mix up possible interpretations with impossible interpretations if you're trying to find the truth. otherwise you make your problem space infinite
- youngNed 3y ago
  I asked if you could read the article? Literally thats all i did? A while back I made a decision to stay well clear of any Musk related discourse as it generally attracts... not the best people. I kinda wish I had remembered that advice to myself now
  - Nathanba 3y ago
    Yes but you didn't actually ask because you wanted to know if he read the article. You asked as a form of attack.
    - youngNed 3y ago
      Fuck me, but you lot are hard work. Out.
    - gambiting 3y ago
      >>You asked as a form of attack. Mate, you're turning this into a joke now. Get a grip.
- epakai 3y ago
  He has a long record of bad behavior. It's not a secret. Each video below includes a link to a google doc of sources (tweets, articles, whatever), but it's not terribly well organized. I think you have to be completely ignorant of Musk's actions to think he's just the victim of a media conspiracy. Sure he's associated with massive, probably overall good projects, but that doesn't make his individual actions good, nor does the success of those projects stem directly from him. Various "Some More News" videos. Humor, vulgar speech, talking about Musk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Zoy-it4cY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Zoy-it4cY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlL4xvn6xWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlL4xvn6xWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Y7U4LOTYY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Y7U4LOTYY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9MO18F5Wi8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9MO18F5Wi8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pNL7MlUpmI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pNL7MlUpmI
  - nerdchum 3y ago
    > he has a long record of bad behavior. whether that's true or not he also has a long record of good behavior. starlink to Ukraine, providing power to children's hospitals, working to make the human race multi-planetary, trying to end reliance on gasoline... and on and on focusing the dialogue on bad behavior which may or may not be true instead of trying to interpret his behavior in a positive, neutral, or accurate light is the definition of trying to demonize someone
    - epakai 3y ago
      Musk is responsible for his own behavior. The things you use to bolster his reputation are the actions of much larger groups that Musk exerts some control over. I'll take his direct actions when judging his character.
      - nerdchum 3y ago
        Lol, his money, his vision, his management, his time ok that's fine you can keep demonizing him.
- Veen 3y ago
  > article itself is an emotion driven ad hominem attack on Musk No it isn't. I'm no great fan of Nick Cohen, but this article is at least well-argued enough to require as serious response, not a lazy dismissal. Cohen proposes a framework within which to interpret Musk's behavior and then provides any number of examples that support his interpretation, alongside historical parallels. Personally, I'm more in the "Musk is a prick" camp than the "Musk is a proto-fascist" camp. (Plus, please review what ad hominem means. It doesn't mean "saying nasty things about people I like" )

gambiting 3y ago

.....literally the very article we're commenting on? Or you can go to his twitter account, no need for reading opinion peaces, just read what the man says.

Nathanba 3y ago
yes but the article is terrible nonsense. Musk also allowed far left wing people back on. Secondly not risking being booted out of an entire country is kind of the default business decision, you are asking of him things that practically no company on the planet will do. You don't see Apple leaving China or Blizzard leaving China over chinese repressions. But because Elon Musk dared to go against traditional leftwing mass media, now we have to deal with these attack articles and its followers who get captured by their content.
- gambiting 3y ago
  ...I feel like you read maybe the first two paragraphs of the article? There's a lot more to it than just his stance on Turkey. >> But because Elon Musk dared to go against traditional leftwing mass media The what now? I'm not american so I literally have no idea what that means, and I find the way americans use left/right to be confusing and not how the rest of the world uses it. Please explain.