5 ms·

> Cars are fine and are needed, you can't move anything big with tram or bike easily What’s the percentage of cars on the road you see moving big stuff that co

> Cars are fine and are needed, you can't move anything big with tram or bike easily What’s the percentage of cars on the road you see moving big stuff that could not be moved by other means? (Aka not people).

decremental 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- californical 3y ago
  In many European cities, you can just walk to a grocery store a few blocks away, and just go every day or two, picking up a few items each time. You only need one bag, so it’s not a burden at all. Worst case, it’s incredibly easy to add a basket to a bike (or mobility scooter), so you can put your day’s groceries in there. And as an added benefit of density, grocery stores are more efficient. There is a “general” one with all of the basics — fruit and veggies, cereal, meat, pasta, basic sauces, breads, convenience foods. Those are everywhere. Then if you go a little further, you’ll find specialty stores with “asian foods” or others, which you may not use as often but can get some rarer things there.
  - erik_seaberg 3y ago
    That sounds a lot more time consuming than going to Costco (a five mile drive) every week or two.
    - ska 3y ago
      In my experience, having done both, it is a bit more time efficient at the Costco, but it also changes what you buy (lots of fresh food doesn't actually do well for two weeks). This is assuming you have the places you need in easy walking distance of course. At one time I had a grocer/butcher/wine shop/etc. all literally on the way I would walk home from subway anyhow, so my overall time was probably even shorter than a big grocery run every 2 weeks. I paid a bit more, but then I got better produce and bread, and could change meal planning on a dime if I saw something good. All tradeoffs I guess.
- loloquwowndueo 3y ago
  Yep. I either do it by bike for the big weekly purchase or go to the nearby store (5 minute walk - doable even in the dead of Canadian winter) for smaller everyday stuff.
- fayten 3y ago
  I guess it depends on how much bulk you are buying at once, but most bikes are compatible with a basket of some kind. A bike trailer could also be an option. In the Netherlands you'll see Bakfiets/cargo bikes. https://www.bakfiets.com/ https://www.bakfiets.com/
- marssaxman 3y ago
  When you live within walking distance of a grocery store, there's rarely any need for a big shopping trip with many bags; it's easier to just stop by every day or two, perhaps on your way home from work, and bring home a single bag you can easily carry.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ska 3y ago
  This is sort of an interesting one. The combination of home refrigeration and suburbs created the "weekend shop", but it's not a given that this is optimal or even really desirable.
- dang 3y ago
  > Have you ever been grocery shopping? Please make your substantive points without snark or swipes: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you've unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines so frequently that I've banned the account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
- analog31 3y ago
  I live in a neighborhood that has a couple of "upscale" supermarkets nearby. So we get our perishables there, and any last-minute need, by bike. Every few weeks, we load up the car with all of the non-perishables, at a huge discount supermarket that's a few miles away. Seems like an OK compromise.
cscurmudgeon 3y ago
Do you have kids? Are you affluent and lucky enough to live near their school? https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/07/20190730-school.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/07/20190730-school.htm...
- loloquwowndueo 3y ago
  Yes, kids. Not affluent. Lucky enough to live in a place where they assign you a nearby school. There are 5 within walking distance. Maybe 20 within cycling distance (and I mean a 20-minute ride, not a 1-hour backbreaker).
- alistairSH 3y ago
  By that link, half the kids that live a mile from school are driven in a private car. That’s bonkers to me. That’s a completely walkable distance if road/sidewalk design allows it. That it frequently doesn’t is a failure on the part of our governments and urban planners.
  - ultrarunner 3y ago
    Not only is it doable, with the obesity & depression rates in most of the United States it could be massively beneficial from a number of fronts.
  - juunpp 3y ago
    You're probably dealing with the kind of citizen that waits 2 minutes to park in front of the store... when there's several free spots just 10 metres away. Can't park close enough! Also, wonder what 'other' is in that chart.
  - zinckiwi 3y ago
    We live 20 minutes' walk from our kids' two schools. They walk. The majority of our neighbours do not. I agree, bonkers.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Walking a mile is totally doable, but it takes some time planning. Throwing the kid in the car 2 minutes before the bell works. The sidewalks are often there to be used, but the car is faster and easier. I normally walk to school but it was raining today so I drove for pickup.
jodrellblank 3y ago
The YouTube channel Not Just Bikes has a 4 minute video on grocery shopping in Amsterdam, compared to when he lived in London, Ontario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk (In response to now flagged comment below about grocery shopping 'requiring' moving big stuff)
- theluketaylor 3y ago
  And the key part of Amsterdam is that in the 60s it was packed with cars and not the bike and walk haven it is today. Many people make he mistake thinking Amsterdam has great public transit and bike infrastructure since it’s an old European city and was never car dependant, but they made the same mistakes 50 years ago and reversed course. It’s possible to reverse the damage of car dependency.

decremental 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
californical 3y ago
In many European cities, you can just walk to a grocery store a few blocks away, and just go every day or two, picking up a few items each time. You only need one bag, so it’s not a burden at all. Worst case, it’s incredibly easy to add a basket to a bike (or mobility scooter), so you can put your day’s groceries in there. And as an added benefit of density, grocery stores are more efficient. There is a “general” one with all of the basics — fruit and veggies, cereal, meat, pasta, basic sauces, breads, convenience foods. Those are everywhere. Then if you go a little further, you’ll find specialty stores with “asian foods” or others, which you may not use as often but can get some rarer things there.
- erik_seaberg 3y ago
  That sounds a lot more time consuming than going to Costco (a five mile drive) every week or two.
  - ska 3y ago
    In my experience, having done both, it is a bit more time efficient at the Costco, but it also changes what you buy (lots of fresh food doesn't actually do well for two weeks). This is assuming you have the places you need in easy walking distance of course. At one time I had a grocer/butcher/wine shop/etc. all literally on the way I would walk home from subway anyhow, so my overall time was probably even shorter than a big grocery run every 2 weeks. I paid a bit more, but then I got better produce and bread, and could change meal planning on a dime if I saw something good. All tradeoffs I guess.
loloquwowndueo 3y ago
Yep. I either do it by bike for the big weekly purchase or go to the nearby store (5 minute walk - doable even in the dead of Canadian winter) for smaller everyday stuff.
fayten 3y ago
I guess it depends on how much bulk you are buying at once, but most bikes are compatible with a basket of some kind. A bike trailer could also be an option. In the Netherlands you'll see Bakfiets/cargo bikes. https://www.bakfiets.com/ https://www.bakfiets.com/
marssaxman 3y ago
When you live within walking distance of a grocery store, there's rarely any need for a big shopping trip with many bags; it's easier to just stop by every day or two, perhaps on your way home from work, and bring home a single bag you can easily carry.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ska 3y ago
This is sort of an interesting one. The combination of home refrigeration and suburbs created the "weekend shop", but it's not a given that this is optimal or even really desirable.
dang 3y ago
> Have you ever been grocery shopping? Please make your substantive points without snark or swipes: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you've unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines so frequently that I've banned the account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
analog31 3y ago
I live in a neighborhood that has a couple of "upscale" supermarkets nearby. So we get our perishables there, and any last-minute need, by bike. Every few weeks, we load up the car with all of the non-perishables, at a huge discount supermarket that's a few miles away. Seems like an OK compromise.

cscurmudgeon 3y ago

Do you have kids? Are you affluent and lucky enough to live near their school? https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/07/20190730-school.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/07/20190730-school.htm...

loloquwowndueo 3y ago
Yes, kids. Not affluent. Lucky enough to live in a place where they assign you a nearby school. There are 5 within walking distance. Maybe 20 within cycling distance (and I mean a 20-minute ride, not a 1-hour backbreaker).
alistairSH 3y ago
By that link, half the kids that live a mile from school are driven in a private car. That’s bonkers to me. That’s a completely walkable distance if road/sidewalk design allows it. That it frequently doesn’t is a failure on the part of our governments and urban planners.
- ultrarunner 3y ago
  Not only is it doable, with the obesity & depression rates in most of the United States it could be massively beneficial from a number of fronts.
- juunpp 3y ago
  You're probably dealing with the kind of citizen that waits 2 minutes to park in front of the store... when there's several free spots just 10 metres away. Can't park close enough! Also, wonder what 'other' is in that chart.
- zinckiwi 3y ago
  We live 20 minutes' walk from our kids' two schools. They walk. The majority of our neighbours do not. I agree, bonkers.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Walking a mile is totally doable, but it takes some time planning. Throwing the kid in the car 2 minutes before the bell works. The sidewalks are often there to be used, but the car is faster and easier. I normally walk to school but it was raining today so I drove for pickup.

jodrellblank 3y ago

The YouTube channel Not Just Bikes has a 4 minute video on grocery shopping in Amsterdam, compared to when he lived in London, Ontario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk (In response to now flagged comment below about grocery shopping 'requiring' moving big stuff)

theluketaylor 3y ago
And the key part of Amsterdam is that in the 60s it was packed with cars and not the bike and walk haven it is today. Many people make he mistake thinking Amsterdam has great public transit and bike infrastructure since it’s an old European city and was never car dependant, but they made the same mistakes 50 years ago and reversed course. It’s possible to reverse the damage of car dependency.