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As annoyed as I often get at my country, it is things like this that make me glad to be here and able to voice opinion about all its flaws without fear of somet

As annoyed as I often get at my country, it is things like this that make me glad to be here and able to voice opinion about all its flaws without fear of something like this. Occasionally I might have some regrets about my time in the service, but not today. I just wish there was something we could do for this guy - I hate knowing what I know about it and also being completely powerless to influence the outcome of this in any way at all.

rhizome 15y ago
Sometimes all a person can do is wish they were born somewhere or sometime else.
peterwwillis 15y ago
You can do something. Our country's foreign relations with Iran may really shaky but that doesn't stop us from being able to officially condemn their behavior, which the international community will hear, and potentially echo. Write your representatives and tell them how you feel and that they should do something about it.
- Jach 15y ago
  All an echoed Official Condemnation will do is make the US more likely to invade Iran. It won't make Iran's behaviors less frequent. So I don't think an Official Condemnation by the country is a good thing, and I don't think it should happen unless we intend to start something; though others think this time will be different and we would be greeted as liberators if we invaded...
  - afterburner 15y ago
    The US won't invade Iran. They might bomb it, but never invade. Too many people, terrain too difficult. 2.5 times more people than Iraq, and 10 times more rugged terrain. Also, they've never been there before, so operationally it's a far more daunting prospect even without considering the already huge challenges. People might think "oh it could just turn into another Iraq." But, really, it can't. Not that pushing back isn't a bad idea. But, really, it can't. If anything happens, it'll be all bombs.
    - InclinedPlane 15y ago
      People said the same thing about Afghanistan, and Iraq too. Just because something is difficult doesn't rule out it happening at some future date. It's even more challenging to try to deal with North Korea militarily, but it would be silly to rule out the possibility entirely. The future of Iran, and of Pakistan too, is crucially important to the future security or insecurity of the entire world. Who can say what future developments may bring?
      - afterburner 15y ago
        About Afghanistan: the CIA had been involved in Afghanistan for decades. They had volumes of information, and allies. Russian involvement made a lot of information available (spies) and set the country up for interventionist scenarios. With Iraq, the entire military had been there 10 years before. Those are not the case in Iran. It's much more of an unknown. And frankly, Afghanistan really is easier to invade, so I'm not sure invading was such a shock as you claim, especially coming a mere 20 years after the Russian invasion. It's a country divided into self-interested warlord factions. Achieving any kind of lasting effect, that's another thing entirely... but sitting around having pot-shots taken at you, no problem. Especially if you can back it up with cash. Sure, who knows what can happen. But it would practically have to be a new world order, slanted towards that possibility. So that's not a good reason for keeping a lid on any talk of Iran being unjust or unfair, just out of fear that such talk now would somehow contribute some fraction of a fraction towards intervention in some unknown, completely removed event in the distant future.
    - shingen 15y ago
      I agree. An invasion of Iran would be a real war, the likes of which we haven't seen since the Korean war. It would very likely involve a draft, and require at least 500,000 troops on the ground. We'd lose 20,000 soldiers in the first year of combat (obviously all the fighting after the first wave of battles would be guerrilla style). Iran is absolutely nothing like Iraq or Afghanistan, in any way shape or form. It's not that we can't 'win' in an invasion style conflict with Iran - we can certainly flatten the entire country - but the cost would be far beyond anything the American public could stomach. The things we'd have to do to Iran in order to get them to capitulate would be beyond horrendous. I don't believe we can actually afford the cost that would be involved. Unless Ben Bernanke is willing to monetize $3 trillion to fund it over the next few years. Maybe they're willing to do that and are that stupid, I'd just like to think not. Bombs, no-fly zones, naval skirmishes - that's all we're going to see. Unless our leaders are really really really stupid.
  - peterwwillis 15y ago
    Both the Canadian government[1], the Inter-Parliamentary Group for Human Rights, and Amnesty International[2] have condemned this fast-track conviction/execution. I don't think the US government echoing an ally nation and a human rights organization will spark a war. However, it does help put international pressure on them which might make them hesitate to perform the same action again. In any case, if you believe it's wrong you should speak out against it, no matter the consequences. Staying silent only allows the abuses to continue. [1] http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jskeJOMweZF8tVnrLUVnDcI1qT-Q?docId=CNG.4100c76d04bbec9094cd4dc90805a56d.7c1 http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jskeJOMwe... [2] http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/news-item/iran-must-halt-execution-of-web-programmer http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/news-item/iran-must-halt-exec...
    - Jach 15y ago
      I didn't say it would spark a war, I said it would make it more likely. Maybe it would only make it a tiny bit more likely, I don't think the amount matters so much in this case. There's already a shitstorm of anti-Iran propaganda being spewed by the major media outlets, I think all but Ron Paul on the GOP presidential line up don't publicly admit any problems with having a war with Iran--a few even think Iran is sneaking in terrorists over the US-Mexican border... We're constantly sabre-rattling about nukes (or doing more than rattling if you believe we're in cahoots with (most likely) the Israeli government ordering the killing of Iran's nuclear scientists (imagine if Germany/Japan had Feynman, Oppenheimer, Fermi, Bohm, and Bohr killed)). We threaten sanctions or bombing their nuclear facilities, Iran threatens right back with all-out war (only if we do certain sanctions or bomb them first). So condemning them over this relatively minor action all things considered, just adds to the total amount of anti-Iran propaganda already out there (some of it warranted, most of it not), if it keeps growing then eventually it will be enough that the American Public demands war. I agree that regardless of what politicians chest-beat about they would have to be really really stupid to actually do it, but I wouldn't put it past this administration and this congress let alone with who might be coming up in the next few election cycles. Meanwhile Canada et al. are free to do as they wish since they're not in the position to actually start something with Iran, and their words are just words.
- calibraxis 15y ago
  That unfortunately won't turn out to be the ethical thing to do. Our government overthrew Iran's secular, parliamentary democracy and installed the Shah — and it's still threatening them. (They fail to have a sufficiently obedient tyranny.) This proposal you mention is tantamount to supporting more attacks. Fortunately, there's a lot of room to really help out mideasterners — by getting our government off their backs and stop supporting their regimes. And anyone in an ethical mood need look no further than their own country! The US jails far more of its own people than any other country. On Feb 20, you can participate in a nearby Occupy 4 Prisoners. (http://occupy4prisoners.org/actions/ http://occupy4prisoners.org/actions/)
  - shareme 15y ago
    No, sorry that was GB and Russia that did that during WWI
    - nate_meurer 15y ago
      Operation Ajax. Look it up.
      - tokenadult 15y ago
        An interesting result from Googling "Operation Ajax": https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol48no2/article10.html https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intellig...
        nate_meurer 15y ago
        Fascinating, absolutely fascinating, that this is posted on cia.gov. This restores in me a teeny tiny bit of respect for my government. I've read Kinzer's book. I came away much less a fan of Winston Churchill than I was before. He was quite a tyrant when it came to preserving the empire.
  - shareme 15y ago
    No, sorry that was GB and Russia that did that during WWI
rooshdi 15y ago
https://www.facebook.com/Free.Saeed.Malekpor https://www.facebook.com/Free.Saeed.Malekpor Spread the word. We may not have time to save this man's life, but a growing public outcry may help save others like him. Let us not lose faith in the power of people to create change.
- codesuela 15y ago
  typo in url: https://www.facebook.com/Free.Saeed.Malekpour https://www.facebook.com/Free.Saeed.Malekpour
tomjen3 15y ago
You weren't by any chance trained as an assasain or sharp-shooter or special force soldier? because if not, then there isn't much any of us can do. Sadly.
- cobrausn 15y ago
  Considered SEALs at one point, ended up doing nuclear power work instead. Probably for the best - I wasn't very level headed in my younger days, and I'm not sure going into a gung-ho profession such as the SEALs would have helped matters. Technical work followed by college, on the other hand, did, and it's also what got me into programming. Having said that, there are still days when I sometimes wish I'd taken on the challenge. Nonetheless, I don't think a special-forces op to rescue a Canadian resident is actually in the works. If diplomatic approaches fail, this guy is going to die for writing software and video games that are critical of Iranian government. I feel equally guilty because my country (and others) overthrew their democratic government in 1953, meaning the current batch of goons is partially our fault. It actually makes me physically sad. EDIT: Corrected the incorrect date for the Mordad coup.
  - bostonpete 15y ago
    > I feel equally guilty because my country (and others) overthrew their democratic government in the 70s I think that was 1953.
  - tomjen3 15y ago
    Oh I am sure that there is no rescue in the works. That is kind why I wanted to convince you to go do it.
smokeyj 15y ago
If this happened in the U.S, you would have never heard of it.
- cobrausn 15y ago
  Do you have any evidence of anyone in the US being convicted and put to death for writing software without anyone knowing about it, or is this just some additional snarky rhetoric being tossed about that mirrors your dim view of the US? Seriously, if the first, I would like to know. Unlike in Iran, I might be able to affect the outcome here.
  - smokeyj 15y ago
    I only said if it did happen here, you wouldn't know about it. I don't mean to offend your sense of patriotism. I still feel this statement is factual given the fact you're asking me for instances. Can I prove someone was secretly detained for voicing their opinion? No. It's a secret. This is like asking someone to prove they don't have something. What I do know is, due process has been suspended in the U.S via ndaa, the patriot act, and soon to be enemy expatriation act. I do know americans have been detained in gitmo for owning a casio watch. I have nothing against the U.S. I live here and enjoy the privileges the constitution affords me. But I feel it is important to be critical of our own government rather than saying 'hey, at least we're not IRAN'. That isn't a very high standard at all.
    - Karunamon 15y ago
      >I do know americans have been detained in gitmo for owning a casio watch. Really now? You'll have to pardon me for being skeptical of this. Americans have been detained in gitmo, absent any other evidence, for owning a particular model of watch? Citation badly needed. I'm afraid you are very foggy on the definition of "factual". Something isn't "factual" if there's no evidence to support it.
      - smokeyj 15y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees_accused_of_possessing_Casio_watches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainee...

rhizome 15y ago

Sometimes all a person can do is wish they were born somewhere or sometime else.

peterwwillis 15y ago

You can do something. Our country's foreign relations with Iran may really shaky but that doesn't stop us from being able to officially condemn their behavior, which the international community will hear, and potentially echo. Write your representatives and tell them how you feel and that they should do something about it.

Jach 15y ago
All an echoed Official Condemnation will do is make the US more likely to invade Iran. It won't make Iran's behaviors less frequent. So I don't think an Official Condemnation by the country is a good thing, and I don't think it should happen unless we intend to start something; though others think this time will be different and we would be greeted as liberators if we invaded...
- afterburner 15y ago
  The US won't invade Iran. They might bomb it, but never invade. Too many people, terrain too difficult. 2.5 times more people than Iraq, and 10 times more rugged terrain. Also, they've never been there before, so operationally it's a far more daunting prospect even without considering the already huge challenges. People might think "oh it could just turn into another Iraq." But, really, it can't. Not that pushing back isn't a bad idea. But, really, it can't. If anything happens, it'll be all bombs.
  - InclinedPlane 15y ago
    People said the same thing about Afghanistan, and Iraq too. Just because something is difficult doesn't rule out it happening at some future date. It's even more challenging to try to deal with North Korea militarily, but it would be silly to rule out the possibility entirely. The future of Iran, and of Pakistan too, is crucially important to the future security or insecurity of the entire world. Who can say what future developments may bring?
    - afterburner 15y ago
      About Afghanistan: the CIA had been involved in Afghanistan for decades. They had volumes of information, and allies. Russian involvement made a lot of information available (spies) and set the country up for interventionist scenarios. With Iraq, the entire military had been there 10 years before. Those are not the case in Iran. It's much more of an unknown. And frankly, Afghanistan really is easier to invade, so I'm not sure invading was such a shock as you claim, especially coming a mere 20 years after the Russian invasion. It's a country divided into self-interested warlord factions. Achieving any kind of lasting effect, that's another thing entirely... but sitting around having pot-shots taken at you, no problem. Especially if you can back it up with cash. Sure, who knows what can happen. But it would practically have to be a new world order, slanted towards that possibility. So that's not a good reason for keeping a lid on any talk of Iran being unjust or unfair, just out of fear that such talk now would somehow contribute some fraction of a fraction towards intervention in some unknown, completely removed event in the distant future.
  - shingen 15y ago
    I agree. An invasion of Iran would be a real war, the likes of which we haven't seen since the Korean war. It would very likely involve a draft, and require at least 500,000 troops on the ground. We'd lose 20,000 soldiers in the first year of combat (obviously all the fighting after the first wave of battles would be guerrilla style). Iran is absolutely nothing like Iraq or Afghanistan, in any way shape or form. It's not that we can't 'win' in an invasion style conflict with Iran - we can certainly flatten the entire country - but the cost would be far beyond anything the American public could stomach. The things we'd have to do to Iran in order to get them to capitulate would be beyond horrendous. I don't believe we can actually afford the cost that would be involved. Unless Ben Bernanke is willing to monetize $3 trillion to fund it over the next few years. Maybe they're willing to do that and are that stupid, I'd just like to think not. Bombs, no-fly zones, naval skirmishes - that's all we're going to see. Unless our leaders are really really really stupid.
- peterwwillis 15y ago
  Both the Canadian government[1], the Inter-Parliamentary Group for Human Rights, and Amnesty International[2] have condemned this fast-track conviction/execution. I don't think the US government echoing an ally nation and a human rights organization will spark a war. However, it does help put international pressure on them which might make them hesitate to perform the same action again. In any case, if you believe it's wrong you should speak out against it, no matter the consequences. Staying silent only allows the abuses to continue. [1] http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jskeJOMweZF8tVnrLUVnDcI1qT-Q?docId=CNG.4100c76d04bbec9094cd4dc90805a56d.7c1 http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jskeJOMwe... [2] http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/news-item/iran-must-halt-execution-of-web-programmer http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/news-item/iran-must-halt-exec...
  - Jach 15y ago
    I didn't say it would spark a war, I said it would make it more likely. Maybe it would only make it a tiny bit more likely, I don't think the amount matters so much in this case. There's already a shitstorm of anti-Iran propaganda being spewed by the major media outlets, I think all but Ron Paul on the GOP presidential line up don't publicly admit any problems with having a war with Iran--a few even think Iran is sneaking in terrorists over the US-Mexican border... We're constantly sabre-rattling about nukes (or doing more than rattling if you believe we're in cahoots with (most likely) the Israeli government ordering the killing of Iran's nuclear scientists (imagine if Germany/Japan had Feynman, Oppenheimer, Fermi, Bohm, and Bohr killed)). We threaten sanctions or bombing their nuclear facilities, Iran threatens right back with all-out war (only if we do certain sanctions or bomb them first). So condemning them over this relatively minor action all things considered, just adds to the total amount of anti-Iran propaganda already out there (some of it warranted, most of it not), if it keeps growing then eventually it will be enough that the American Public demands war. I agree that regardless of what politicians chest-beat about they would have to be really really stupid to actually do it, but I wouldn't put it past this administration and this congress let alone with who might be coming up in the next few election cycles. Meanwhile Canada et al. are free to do as they wish since they're not in the position to actually start something with Iran, and their words are just words.
calibraxis 15y ago
That unfortunately won't turn out to be the ethical thing to do. Our government overthrew Iran's secular, parliamentary democracy and installed the Shah — and it's still threatening them. (They fail to have a sufficiently obedient tyranny.) This proposal you mention is tantamount to supporting more attacks. Fortunately, there's a lot of room to really help out mideasterners — by getting our government off their backs and stop supporting their regimes. And anyone in an ethical mood need look no further than their own country! The US jails far more of its own people than any other country. On Feb 20, you can participate in a nearby Occupy 4 Prisoners. (http://occupy4prisoners.org/actions/ http://occupy4prisoners.org/actions/)
- shareme 15y ago
  No, sorry that was GB and Russia that did that during WWI
  - nate_meurer 15y ago
    Operation Ajax. Look it up.
    - tokenadult 15y ago
      An interesting result from Googling "Operation Ajax": https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol48no2/article10.html https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intellig...
      - nate_meurer 15y ago
        Fascinating, absolutely fascinating, that this is posted on cia.gov. This restores in me a teeny tiny bit of respect for my government. I've read Kinzer's book. I came away much less a fan of Winston Churchill than I was before. He was quite a tyrant when it came to preserving the empire.
- shareme 15y ago
  No, sorry that was GB and Russia that did that during WWI

rooshdi 15y ago

https://www.facebook.com/Free.Saeed.Malekpor https://www.facebook.com/Free.Saeed.Malekpor Spread the word. We may not have time to save this man's life, but a growing public outcry may help save others like him. Let us not lose faith in the power of people to create change.

codesuela 15y ago
typo in url: https://www.facebook.com/Free.Saeed.Malekpour https://www.facebook.com/Free.Saeed.Malekpour

tomjen3 15y ago

You weren't by any chance trained as an assasain or sharp-shooter or special force soldier? because if not, then there isn't much any of us can do. Sadly.

cobrausn 15y ago
Considered SEALs at one point, ended up doing nuclear power work instead. Probably for the best - I wasn't very level headed in my younger days, and I'm not sure going into a gung-ho profession such as the SEALs would have helped matters. Technical work followed by college, on the other hand, did, and it's also what got me into programming. Having said that, there are still days when I sometimes wish I'd taken on the challenge. Nonetheless, I don't think a special-forces op to rescue a Canadian resident is actually in the works. If diplomatic approaches fail, this guy is going to die for writing software and video games that are critical of Iranian government. I feel equally guilty because my country (and others) overthrew their democratic government in 1953, meaning the current batch of goons is partially our fault. It actually makes me physically sad. EDIT: Corrected the incorrect date for the Mordad coup.
- bostonpete 15y ago
  > I feel equally guilty because my country (and others) overthrew their democratic government in the 70s I think that was 1953.
- tomjen3 15y ago
  Oh I am sure that there is no rescue in the works. That is kind why I wanted to convince you to go do it.

smokeyj 15y ago

If this happened in the U.S, you would have never heard of it.

cobrausn 15y ago
Do you have any evidence of anyone in the US being convicted and put to death for writing software without anyone knowing about it, or is this just some additional snarky rhetoric being tossed about that mirrors your dim view of the US? Seriously, if the first, I would like to know. Unlike in Iran, I might be able to affect the outcome here.
- smokeyj 15y ago
  I only said if it did happen here, you wouldn't know about it. I don't mean to offend your sense of patriotism. I still feel this statement is factual given the fact you're asking me for instances. Can I prove someone was secretly detained for voicing their opinion? No. It's a secret. This is like asking someone to prove they don't have something. What I do know is, due process has been suspended in the U.S via ndaa, the patriot act, and soon to be enemy expatriation act. I do know americans have been detained in gitmo for owning a casio watch. I have nothing against the U.S. I live here and enjoy the privileges the constitution affords me. But I feel it is important to be critical of our own government rather than saying 'hey, at least we're not IRAN'. That isn't a very high standard at all.
  - Karunamon 15y ago
    >I do know americans have been detained in gitmo for owning a casio watch. Really now? You'll have to pardon me for being skeptical of this. Americans have been detained in gitmo, absent any other evidence, for owning a particular model of watch? Citation badly needed. I'm afraid you are very foggy on the definition of "factual". Something isn't "factual" if there's no evidence to support it.
    - smokeyj 15y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees_accused_of_possessing_Casio_watches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainee...