16 ms·

Absolutely. Between Apple Silicon, Apple Watch, AirPods, and scaling operations to be able to sell the amount of products they do in a year, that is hard to arg

Absolutely. Between Apple Silicon, Apple Watch, AirPods, and scaling operations to be able to sell the amount of products they do in a year, that is hard to argue against being an overwhelming success for Tim Cook as CEO. Is it equal to the legacy of Apple under Jobs? Definitely not. But how many other companies/people released 3 revolutionary products?

bredren 3y ago
It is hard to not compare the breakthrough product release count between Jobs and Cook. If that is the measure, then we have to bring in Jobs' tenure as not only CEO but company founder that stretched 25 years as CEO, 1976 to 1985 and 1997 to 2011. Cook only took the reins in 2011, and at that time arguably the company should not have focused on releasing yet more revolutionary products. iPhone is the most successful consumer product in history, focus was correctly placed in supporting that, building moats around it and positioning the ecosystem to support the next big thing. One product often left out, which may have started with Jobs, but delivery should be attributed to Cook is the new Apple HQ. The initial impact has crumbled due to Covid WFH. However, this campus may turn out to be a force multiplier going forward. If so, it is a victory, but not in the minds of consumers.
- deet 3y ago
  I strongly doubt that the campus is any more of a force multiplier than a collection of far cheaper class A office buildings of similar capacity, with similarly serene grass and vegetation connecting them.
  - zamnos 3y ago
    And that, dear reader, is how we ended up with hundreds of bland copy-cat Android phones to the iPhone. There's something to be said, mentally, for working somewhere that's inspiring. A shitty office in yet a clone of all the other office parks, buried in office-park-landia of San Jose, is not it. Even a stroll through the secret underground parking lot at Apple is inspiring with all the exotic cars that are owned by early Apple employees, instead of Honda Civics and Toyota Camrys. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I drive a Honda, but they just don't have the same emotional pull.
    - astrange 3y ago
      Rather than "inspiring" I think the feeling is "concerned about being hit by" in such places.
    - kbenson 3y ago
      I've always found that after a while the wonder at the flash and pomp of some place that seems new and wonderful like that dies down and it's just another place that you do work in. Much more important is the people you interact with every day, both in person and at a distance. If I had to choose between jobs doing the same work but one was in a closet but interacting with people I like or the apple campus and interacting with people I felt no connection to, I would take the former in a heartbeat. I don't think I'm an outlier. If indeed I'm not, what does that say for how important and special Apple HQ will end up being in the long run?
      - parksoha 3y ago
        What you are referring to is the culture. Obviously people are big part of it but the office is a big driving force of shaping the culture. Even in an online office! When I had Slack, I felt much more involved with people and the company (500+ employees) culture overall. Ever since they transitioned to Teams, I feel like I only exist within my own team. A pleasant and aesthetic office, surround by nature, built with sustainability in mind, etc is already a driving force for the type of culture you want instilled in your company. It will certainly attract a type of people that want to work surrounded by beauty, it’s already paving the way for a common ground of understanding. It goes much further than just wonder. It’s a feeling that persists. A nice feeling.
        kbenson 3y ago
        No, culture is different. Enjoying the people you work around is not culture, it's having good coworkers. You can have coworkers you don't like but a good culture, and coworkers you do like and a bad culture. Culture is distinct from enjoying who you deal with on a day to day basis. People mistake that all the time though. Culture does matter for this as well though, as enjoying your coworkers but not the culture may still make the job somewhere you don't want to stick around. I think physical surroundings may help with the culture some, but they'll always be a much lesser influence than the people and policies in place. What's worse, sometimes companies will think the physical surroundings are much more important than they are, and focus on those instead of fixing the policies destroying their actual work culture. I think most people past their early twenties would much rather have a better set of work policies than a really good view out of an office window. Sometimes that's doubly true because those policies might allow you to spend less time in the office and more time at home, around your real family.
  - KerrAvon 3y ago
    The landscaping is really very, very, nice. If you have the opportunity for a tour, you should see it. But, no, it’s not a force multiplier vs a more pedestrian setting.
- Mistletoe 3y ago
  Brother you’ve got to get off that kool-aid, this just isn’t healthy.
  - dmonitor 3y ago
    Which part would you disagree with?
    - Kwpolska 3y ago
      The Apple Park part is delusional. It's just a big corporate office, yet they're ascribing some magical powers to it.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > One product often left out, which may have started with Jobs, but delivery should be attributed to Cook is the new Apple HQ. The initial impact has crumbled due to Covid WFH. > However, this campus may turn out to be a force multiplier going forward. If so, it is a victory, but not in the minds of consumers. Curious, have you ever actually talked to anyone that worked there? While I have admittedly only talked to a couple folks, they either hated it or were at best indifferent. There reasons ranged from "my commute is now twice as long" to "it's still just a giant suburban office park". Again, in no way arguing this is some sort of representative sample, so I am curious what Apple employees who work there actually think about it.
  - musicale 3y ago
    I don't know whether they've backed off from the open plan office layout for Apple Park[1], but that sounded terrible to me. Personally I'd almost certainly prefer a real office (even a tiny closet-like one) with a door, maybe in Infinite Loop. [1] https://www.macworld.com/article/670869/complete-guide-to-apple-park.html https://www.macworld.com/article/670869/complete-guide-to-ap...
    - JKCalhoun 3y ago
      Yeah, no, they were still large glass aquarium-like enclosures for a couple dozen engineers the last time I was there.
      - oblio 3y ago
        That's so ridiculous for a custom designed space. Why not have team offices?!? Something for 6 to 8 people?
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - avalys 3y ago
    Apple Campus 2 is about a superblock away from Apple Campus 1, so unless we’re talking about someone whose 5-minute commute doubled to 10 minutes, no one’s commute doubled in any sense where the comparison is meaningful.
- badpun 3y ago
  > iPhone is the most successful consumer product in history, I'd say it's probably Coca-Cola?
kmonsen 3y ago
I think even if Apple went bankrupt in 5 years, what Tim Cook has achieved is extremely good. It was not sure at all that Apple would grow this much over 12 years. It is not clear Steve Jobs himself could have had this success.
- tough 3y ago
  How would it even be possible for apple to do so
  - judge2020 3y ago
    Apple's total comprehensive income was $24B in Q2. Their total assets were $332B, and total liabilities $270B. Assuming all product sales dropped to 0, they could make the best effort to liquidate assets, after which they'd only have $62B - which would last them a little over a year at $13.6B in quarterly operating expenses. https://s2.q4cdn.com/470004039/files/doc_financials/2023/q2/_10-Q-Q2-2023-As-Filed.pdf https://s2.q4cdn.com/470004039/files/doc_financials/2023/q2/...
    - dwaite 3y ago
      A fair portion of that quarterly operating expense results in $20 billion a quarter in services revenue. I don't think those numbers intuitively reveal a plausible scenario where they are under in five years.
    - adanto6840 3y ago
      The link shows ~ < 50% of Apple's liabilities are current; assuming revenue dropped overnight to $0, I doubt they'd need to liquidate any assets, likely for multiple years. It's an unrealistic & impractical scenario, obviously, but IMO it's more likely they'd want to increase their liabilities (and likely WOULD be able to - lol!) without touching their assets. It's actually an interesting & somewhat comical mind game, even if nothing else. FWIW, I've no personal position.
    - spaceman_2020 3y ago
      I suppose if the product sales dropped to 0, a few mass firings would be in order. That should cut down that $13.6B operating expense drastically :)
thefourthchime 3y ago
Don't forget air tags.

bredren 3y ago

It is hard to not compare the breakthrough product release count between Jobs and Cook. If that is the measure, then we have to bring in Jobs' tenure as not only CEO but company founder that stretched 25 years as CEO, 1976 to 1985 and 1997 to 2011. Cook only took the reins in 2011, and at that time arguably the company should not have focused on releasing yet more revolutionary products. iPhone is the most successful consumer product in history, focus was correctly placed in supporting that, building moats around it and positioning the ecosystem to support the next big thing. One product often left out, which may have started with Jobs, but delivery should be attributed to Cook is the new Apple HQ. The initial impact has crumbled due to Covid WFH. However, this campus may turn out to be a force multiplier going forward. If so, it is a victory, but not in the minds of consumers.

deet 3y ago
I strongly doubt that the campus is any more of a force multiplier than a collection of far cheaper class A office buildings of similar capacity, with similarly serene grass and vegetation connecting them.
- zamnos 3y ago
  And that, dear reader, is how we ended up with hundreds of bland copy-cat Android phones to the iPhone. There's something to be said, mentally, for working somewhere that's inspiring. A shitty office in yet a clone of all the other office parks, buried in office-park-landia of San Jose, is not it. Even a stroll through the secret underground parking lot at Apple is inspiring with all the exotic cars that are owned by early Apple employees, instead of Honda Civics and Toyota Camrys. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I drive a Honda, but they just don't have the same emotional pull.
  - astrange 3y ago
    Rather than "inspiring" I think the feeling is "concerned about being hit by" in such places.
  - kbenson 3y ago
    I've always found that after a while the wonder at the flash and pomp of some place that seems new and wonderful like that dies down and it's just another place that you do work in. Much more important is the people you interact with every day, both in person and at a distance. If I had to choose between jobs doing the same work but one was in a closet but interacting with people I like or the apple campus and interacting with people I felt no connection to, I would take the former in a heartbeat. I don't think I'm an outlier. If indeed I'm not, what does that say for how important and special Apple HQ will end up being in the long run?
    - parksoha 3y ago
      What you are referring to is the culture. Obviously people are big part of it but the office is a big driving force of shaping the culture. Even in an online office! When I had Slack, I felt much more involved with people and the company (500+ employees) culture overall. Ever since they transitioned to Teams, I feel like I only exist within my own team. A pleasant and aesthetic office, surround by nature, built with sustainability in mind, etc is already a driving force for the type of culture you want instilled in your company. It will certainly attract a type of people that want to work surrounded by beauty, it’s already paving the way for a common ground of understanding. It goes much further than just wonder. It’s a feeling that persists. A nice feeling.
      - kbenson 3y ago
        No, culture is different. Enjoying the people you work around is not culture, it's having good coworkers. You can have coworkers you don't like but a good culture, and coworkers you do like and a bad culture. Culture is distinct from enjoying who you deal with on a day to day basis. People mistake that all the time though. Culture does matter for this as well though, as enjoying your coworkers but not the culture may still make the job somewhere you don't want to stick around. I think physical surroundings may help with the culture some, but they'll always be a much lesser influence than the people and policies in place. What's worse, sometimes companies will think the physical surroundings are much more important than they are, and focus on those instead of fixing the policies destroying their actual work culture. I think most people past their early twenties would much rather have a better set of work policies than a really good view out of an office window. Sometimes that's doubly true because those policies might allow you to spend less time in the office and more time at home, around your real family.
- KerrAvon 3y ago
  The landscaping is really very, very, nice. If you have the opportunity for a tour, you should see it. But, no, it’s not a force multiplier vs a more pedestrian setting.
Mistletoe 3y ago
Brother you’ve got to get off that kool-aid, this just isn’t healthy.
- dmonitor 3y ago
  Which part would you disagree with?
  - Kwpolska 3y ago
    The Apple Park part is delusional. It's just a big corporate office, yet they're ascribing some magical powers to it.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> One product often left out, which may have started with Jobs, but delivery should be attributed to Cook is the new Apple HQ. The initial impact has crumbled due to Covid WFH. > However, this campus may turn out to be a force multiplier going forward. If so, it is a victory, but not in the minds of consumers. Curious, have you ever actually talked to anyone that worked there? While I have admittedly only talked to a couple folks, they either hated it or were at best indifferent. There reasons ranged from "my commute is now twice as long" to "it's still just a giant suburban office park". Again, in no way arguing this is some sort of representative sample, so I am curious what Apple employees who work there actually think about it.
- musicale 3y ago
  I don't know whether they've backed off from the open plan office layout for Apple Park[1], but that sounded terrible to me. Personally I'd almost certainly prefer a real office (even a tiny closet-like one) with a door, maybe in Infinite Loop. [1] https://www.macworld.com/article/670869/complete-guide-to-apple-park.html https://www.macworld.com/article/670869/complete-guide-to-ap...
  - JKCalhoun 3y ago
    Yeah, no, they were still large glass aquarium-like enclosures for a couple dozen engineers the last time I was there.
    - oblio 3y ago
      That's so ridiculous for a custom designed space. Why not have team offices?!? Something for 6 to 8 people?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- avalys 3y ago
  Apple Campus 2 is about a superblock away from Apple Campus 1, so unless we’re talking about someone whose 5-minute commute doubled to 10 minutes, no one’s commute doubled in any sense where the comparison is meaningful.
badpun 3y ago
> iPhone is the most successful consumer product in history, I'd say it's probably Coca-Cola?

kmonsen 3y ago

I think even if Apple went bankrupt in 5 years, what Tim Cook has achieved is extremely good. It was not sure at all that Apple would grow this much over 12 years. It is not clear Steve Jobs himself could have had this success.

tough 3y ago
How would it even be possible for apple to do so
- judge2020 3y ago
  Apple's total comprehensive income was $24B in Q2. Their total assets were $332B, and total liabilities $270B. Assuming all product sales dropped to 0, they could make the best effort to liquidate assets, after which they'd only have $62B - which would last them a little over a year at $13.6B in quarterly operating expenses. https://s2.q4cdn.com/470004039/files/doc_financials/2023/q2/_10-Q-Q2-2023-As-Filed.pdf https://s2.q4cdn.com/470004039/files/doc_financials/2023/q2/...
  - dwaite 3y ago
    A fair portion of that quarterly operating expense results in $20 billion a quarter in services revenue. I don't think those numbers intuitively reveal a plausible scenario where they are under in five years.
  - adanto6840 3y ago
    The link shows ~ < 50% of Apple's liabilities are current; assuming revenue dropped overnight to $0, I doubt they'd need to liquidate any assets, likely for multiple years. It's an unrealistic & impractical scenario, obviously, but IMO it's more likely they'd want to increase their liabilities (and likely WOULD be able to - lol!) without touching their assets. It's actually an interesting & somewhat comical mind game, even if nothing else. FWIW, I've no personal position.
  - spaceman_2020 3y ago
    I suppose if the product sales dropped to 0, a few mass firings would be in order. That should cut down that $13.6B operating expense drastically :)

thefourthchime 3y ago

Don't forget air tags.