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My job dictating my friends, romantic attachments and other social connections is incredibly disgusting and dystopian to me. Meaningful social activity has only

My job dictating my friends, romantic attachments and other social connections is incredibly disgusting and dystopian to me. Meaningful social activity has only occurred outside the workplace, to me. Being forced to commute to an office decreases the chance for that by stealing even more free time, and it pushes many people to move away from their friends/family to entirely different cities or countries!

jcelerier 3y ago
> My job dictating my friends, romantic attachments and other social connections is incredibly disgusting and dystopian to me. Meaningful social activity has only occurred outside the workplace, to me. last stats I found is that 43% of marriage come from the workplace so it's most certainly not something to discount that easily
- vitehozonage 3y ago
  Shocking statistic if true. Especially after considering gender imbalances it's hard to imagine, particularly in tech
  - bombcar 3y ago
    “Met at work” doesn’t necessarily mean “met coworker” - if you marry the barista at your coffee shop you did the first but not the second.
- postsantum 3y ago
  I find it hard to believe (unless it's data from the 80s). Online dating has absolutely devoured all other ways to meet people romantically
erulabs 3y ago
Your job isn’t dictating your relationships - it’s giving you an opportunity at making some. Disgusted? By… a company… having an office? We have shockingly different interpretations of dystopian!
- vitehozonage 3y ago
  It's not just having an office. It means work-life balance is so tilted that your workplace is basically your whole life. That implies all sorts of terrible things. Why even leave work? You'd get all sorts of nice marriage statistics if you force people to live in a prison-camp environment 24/7
  - ilyt 3y ago
    The point is that alternative (sitting around in home working on your computer) is not more social.
    - vitehozonage 3y ago
      There are severe social costs to pushing/forcing people to relocate away from friends/family and spend time commuting, so I disagree with that conclusion
    - CapstanRoller 3y ago
      Do you go to work to accomplish your assigned goals or do you go there to socialize? These things seem contradictory. A salaried employee who can maintain productivity in a WFH environment has far more time and freedom to socialize, wholly on their own terms, than an employee who is forced to expend some amount of time on commuting. For people who go to work to get work done, WFH is the obvious best choice.
      - ilyt 3y ago
        > Do you go to work to accomplish your assigned goals or do you go there to socialize? These things seem contradictory. I mean if you can get 8 hours of solid uninterrupted coding, good job, but otherwise social interactions gonna happen. And while some also happen over remote chat, it is nicer in person. Of course that flips if you hate your coworkers or don't share any common interests. But yes, trading for 2h commute is definitely not worth it. 15 min commute to work ? Why not. Especially if you can do some shopping along the way. Honestly, hybrid 1 day-at-work currently work well for me. The on-site day is mostly planning, some gossip and whatever requires some bigger coordination, then rest of the week nobody bothers me.
potatolicious 3y ago
It's also IMO a significant part of how some companies retain people. In years past there's always been a persistent strain of criticism of perk-heavy offices because "it's a ploy to get you to work late" - I think the criticism has actually been off the mark. It's actually a little bit more sinister than that: the perks create a culture where your entire social world exists at work, and massively raises the barrier to quitting. If you've worked at a perk-heavy FAANG like Meta or Google you've met them: the people for whom nearly all of their friends are from work, who relish going into work for the social contact. For them leaving the company isn't just leaving a job, or even colleagues they like, it's the near-total obliteration of their social world. I don't begrudge people for making friends at work - you have to do a job, you may as well make the best of it, but I would heavily caution people against forming the bulk of their social world around their workmates. Having a life outside of work isn't just good for you personally, it's IMO pretty critical to your career's success.
- hadlock 3y ago
  Correct, this is what companies build "culture" for. Turnover goes way down in situations like this and once their employees have a mortgage and fixed living expense they basically only need to give them cost of living adjustment for 20+ years or they quit
65 3y ago
Replace office with school. They're extremely similar in concept. Is making friends at school dystopian to you?
- CapstanRoller 3y ago
  The modern school system is incredibly dystopian and prison-like, yes. Many people talk about surviving school, especially people with autism or similar divergence from the acceptable norm. Making friends at school is a small non-guaranteed consolation prize for them, and it comes at the cost of lifelong trauma. Let people, including children, socialize on their own terms.
  - vitehozonage 3y ago
    Agreed. I think it is even worse than the workplace. My social skills were stunted because I mainly learned how to attempt to socialise in a structured prison-like environment. I was trained to obey the authority figure saying to ignore friends if they tried to speak to me during class. Forced into classes with people I didn't get along with. Often my friends were put into a different class so I was forcibly segregated from them, damaging the relationship. I'm in 30s and still have nightmares about school often
qgin 3y ago
It’s easy to find friends in a group of people you have things in common with and spend lots of time with. I know not every job is like this, but some of my best lifelong friendships started at workplaces. (And outlasted the companies that they started at)
MyneOutside 3y ago
If I could upvote this more than once. Been working 12+ years remotely in a company that has been doing it even longer in some departments. It works and you can get around all the complaints no problem. I understand some people prefer to work in an office and I understand it also depends on the type of business you are it. I get that but people also need to remember times change.

jcelerier 3y ago

> My job dictating my friends, romantic attachments and other social connections is incredibly disgusting and dystopian to me. Meaningful social activity has only occurred outside the workplace, to me. last stats I found is that 43% of marriage come from the workplace so it's most certainly not something to discount that easily

vitehozonage 3y ago
Shocking statistic if true. Especially after considering gender imbalances it's hard to imagine, particularly in tech
- bombcar 3y ago
  “Met at work” doesn’t necessarily mean “met coworker” - if you marry the barista at your coffee shop you did the first but not the second.
postsantum 3y ago
I find it hard to believe (unless it's data from the 80s). Online dating has absolutely devoured all other ways to meet people romantically

erulabs 3y ago

Your job isn’t dictating your relationships - it’s giving you an opportunity at making some. Disgusted? By… a company… having an office? We have shockingly different interpretations of dystopian!

vitehozonage 3y ago
It's not just having an office. It means work-life balance is so tilted that your workplace is basically your whole life. That implies all sorts of terrible things. Why even leave work? You'd get all sorts of nice marriage statistics if you force people to live in a prison-camp environment 24/7
- ilyt 3y ago
  The point is that alternative (sitting around in home working on your computer) is not more social.
  - vitehozonage 3y ago
    There are severe social costs to pushing/forcing people to relocate away from friends/family and spend time commuting, so I disagree with that conclusion
  - CapstanRoller 3y ago
    Do you go to work to accomplish your assigned goals or do you go there to socialize? These things seem contradictory. A salaried employee who can maintain productivity in a WFH environment has far more time and freedom to socialize, wholly on their own terms, than an employee who is forced to expend some amount of time on commuting. For people who go to work to get work done, WFH is the obvious best choice.
    - ilyt 3y ago
      > Do you go to work to accomplish your assigned goals or do you go there to socialize? These things seem contradictory. I mean if you can get 8 hours of solid uninterrupted coding, good job, but otherwise social interactions gonna happen. And while some also happen over remote chat, it is nicer in person. Of course that flips if you hate your coworkers or don't share any common interests. But yes, trading for 2h commute is definitely not worth it. 15 min commute to work ? Why not. Especially if you can do some shopping along the way. Honestly, hybrid 1 day-at-work currently work well for me. The on-site day is mostly planning, some gossip and whatever requires some bigger coordination, then rest of the week nobody bothers me.

potatolicious 3y ago

It's also IMO a significant part of how some companies retain people. In years past there's always been a persistent strain of criticism of perk-heavy offices because "it's a ploy to get you to work late" - I think the criticism has actually been off the mark. It's actually a little bit more sinister than that: the perks create a culture where your entire social world exists at work, and massively raises the barrier to quitting. If you've worked at a perk-heavy FAANG like Meta or Google you've met them: the people for whom nearly all of their friends are from work, who relish going into work for the social contact. For them leaving the company isn't just leaving a job, or even colleagues they like, it's the near-total obliteration of their social world. I don't begrudge people for making friends at work - you have to do a job, you may as well make the best of it, but I would heavily caution people against forming the bulk of their social world around their workmates. Having a life outside of work isn't just good for you personally, it's IMO pretty critical to your career's success.

hadlock 3y ago
Correct, this is what companies build "culture" for. Turnover goes way down in situations like this and once their employees have a mortgage and fixed living expense they basically only need to give them cost of living adjustment for 20+ years or they quit

65 3y ago

Replace office with school. They're extremely similar in concept. Is making friends at school dystopian to you?

CapstanRoller 3y ago
The modern school system is incredibly dystopian and prison-like, yes. Many people talk about surviving school, especially people with autism or similar divergence from the acceptable norm. Making friends at school is a small non-guaranteed consolation prize for them, and it comes at the cost of lifelong trauma. Let people, including children, socialize on their own terms.
- vitehozonage 3y ago
  Agreed. I think it is even worse than the workplace. My social skills were stunted because I mainly learned how to attempt to socialise in a structured prison-like environment. I was trained to obey the authority figure saying to ignore friends if they tried to speak to me during class. Forced into classes with people I didn't get along with. Often my friends were put into a different class so I was forcibly segregated from them, damaging the relationship. I'm in 30s and still have nightmares about school often

qgin 3y ago

It’s easy to find friends in a group of people you have things in common with and spend lots of time with. I know not every job is like this, but some of my best lifelong friendships started at workplaces. (And outlasted the companies that they started at)

MyneOutside 3y ago

If I could upvote this more than once. Been working 12+ years remotely in a company that has been doing it even longer in some departments. It works and you can get around all the complaints no problem. I understand some people prefer to work in an office and I understand it also depends on the type of business you are it. I get that but people also need to remember times change.