4 ms·

This will be a big win for industrial machines. I work with some that required Win XP to run very old and niche cards that interface with CNC machines. You can

by xupybd 3y ago

This will be a big win for industrial machines. I work with some that required Win XP to run very old and niche cards that interface with CNC machines. You can run newer computers but they only just work and cost way more than they're worth. It's a real shame you end up in a situation where it's cheaper to replace a machine than keep it going just because the software is so hard to get working on a new PC and PC hardware has a limited life. It's effectively bricking a 6 meter CNC machine. That is a lot of machine.

mobilio 3y ago
I have similar experience with expensive CNC machine that runs on Windows98... ONLY on Windows 98. That machine costs like $150k or similar and was purchased 99/00 as i remember. Few years ago PC was destroyed. Don't ask - long story because fan stop working due dust. So company purchased 2 PCs with similar configuration just to be sure that they have backup plans. New CNC machine costs over $250k.
- EuropeOverlords 3y ago
  [flagged]
- Szpadel 3y ago
  what about something like pcem? would it be possible to use that to run os and software?
  - magnat 3y ago
    Usually these machines come with obscure hardware interface cards (ISA card if you are lucky) and software which talks directly to those cards. Even though you can find a modern PC with ISA slot, passing through ISA devices to a VM/emu is the hard part.
    - nyanpasu64 3y ago
      I wonder if the MISTer FPGS running AO486 is fast enough, or the CPU is too low-spec and emulated slowly, or doesn't support physical ISA peripherals.
    - ridgered4 3y ago
      Is it even possible to passthrough ISA to a VM? Legacy PCI is (well-ish) supported with its own quirks but I've never heard of ISA passthrough even mentioned before.
      - magnat 3y ago
        Unlike PCI, ISA has no concept of mandatory configuration space, apart from optional Legacy Plug and Play. Worst case scenario is that ISA card responds on some arbitrary I/O port known only to manufacturer and hardcoded in driver. Since all installed cards share the bus, you can't really pass through a single card without exactly knowing its resources. In principle your VM/emulator could intercept guest reads/writes to those selected addresses and pass them (using host-side kernel driver) directly to the card. If the card uses no IRQ nor DMA, that could work. Routing IRQs would be tricky (again: determining which card raises which interrupt without global configuration registers requires a lot of manual work and/or guessing), but I guess it's doable. DMA won't work. As far as I can tell, you can't use IOMMU to isolate ISA bus memory requests, let alone isolate a single device from the bus. Without knowing how card receives DMA parameters from the driver and no hardware support to translate device-generated addresses, your card would corrupt host memory on first DMA request.
  - hulitu 3y ago
    The main problem with SW emulation is that the emulator is just another program running on your computer which is at the mercy of its OS scheduler. If you need microsecond timing, forget it.

by xupybd 3y ago

mobilio 3y ago

I have similar experience with expensive CNC machine that runs on Windows98... ONLY on Windows 98. That machine costs like $150k or similar and was purchased 99/00 as i remember. Few years ago PC was destroyed. Don't ask - long story because fan stop working due dust. So company purchased 2 PCs with similar configuration just to be sure that they have backup plans. New CNC machine costs over $250k.

EuropeOverlords 3y ago
[flagged]
Szpadel 3y ago
what about something like pcem? would it be possible to use that to run os and software?
- magnat 3y ago
  Usually these machines come with obscure hardware interface cards (ISA card if you are lucky) and software which talks directly to those cards. Even though you can find a modern PC with ISA slot, passing through ISA devices to a VM/emu is the hard part.
  - nyanpasu64 3y ago
    I wonder if the MISTer FPGS running AO486 is fast enough, or the CPU is too low-spec and emulated slowly, or doesn't support physical ISA peripherals.
  - ridgered4 3y ago
    Is it even possible to passthrough ISA to a VM? Legacy PCI is (well-ish) supported with its own quirks but I've never heard of ISA passthrough even mentioned before.
    - magnat 3y ago
      Unlike PCI, ISA has no concept of mandatory configuration space, apart from optional Legacy Plug and Play. Worst case scenario is that ISA card responds on some arbitrary I/O port known only to manufacturer and hardcoded in driver. Since all installed cards share the bus, you can't really pass through a single card without exactly knowing its resources. In principle your VM/emulator could intercept guest reads/writes to those selected addresses and pass them (using host-side kernel driver) directly to the card. If the card uses no IRQ nor DMA, that could work. Routing IRQs would be tricky (again: determining which card raises which interrupt without global configuration registers requires a lot of manual work and/or guessing), but I guess it's doable. DMA won't work. As far as I can tell, you can't use IOMMU to isolate ISA bus memory requests, let alone isolate a single device from the bus. Without knowing how card receives DMA parameters from the driver and no hardware support to translate device-generated addresses, your card would corrupt host memory on first DMA request.
- hulitu 3y ago
  The main problem with SW emulation is that the emulator is just another program running on your computer which is at the mercy of its OS scheduler. If you need microsecond timing, forget it.