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I don’t totally believe that remote work is going to go completely away . I think that personally for me never going into the office wasn’t really a great exper

I don’t totally believe that remote work is going to go completely away . I think that personally for me never going into the office wasn’t really a great experience. It made me much more sedimentary (which in tech is almost a work hazard) but that was my fault . I do like being hybrid (but also the team I was a part of basically stopped existing) so while I think it could be a combination of working from home and the team imploding made me lonely. I rather have the option to going to work and I think companies should still offer a solution for that if they are able to. I do like traveling into the city so maybe I just like neckties. I am definitely against all of this rhetoric about how remote work is horrible and the laptop crowd isn’t doing good work when we don’t really give people enough time for childcare or elder care which I think is a much bigger problem that motivates people to work remotely. Also real estate markets are way overvalued.

kerkeslager 3y ago
> I don’t totally believe that remote work is going to go completely away . I think that personally for me never going into the office wasn’t really a great experience. It made me much more sedimentary (which in tech is almost a work hazard) but that was my fault . I do like being hybrid (but also the team I was a part of basically stopped existing) so while I think it could be a combination of working from home and the team imploding made me lonely. I think a lot of people ran into these problems, but there are solutions. Work doesn't have to be your only source of community, and in fact, it can be problematic when it is, because then your community only lasts as long as your job. On the one hand you might lose your job, and on the other hand you might not quit when you should. Having connections outside work is pretty key to having work/life balance IMO.
- 972811 3y ago
  love when commenters are just immediately dismissive of other people's preferences. I feel the same as OP. I have a very healthy social life outside of work but full time remote work at home feels isolating and repetitive. My mind does not like the lack of separation between home and work and I've tried every trick in the book. This is also true for most other activities in my life (e.g. I don't like exercising at home vs. a gym). I don't want to force people to the office, but it gets tiring hearing other people assuming I haven't tried their "solutions"
  - zitterbewegung 3y ago
    Don’t worry it’s not the worst one. That one was where I said I liked the Apple Keyboard on the 12 inch model and that I didn’t experience many keyboards but I have used an IBM model M, Corsair k70 and various other ones. So you can get keyboard shamed…
  - kerkeslager 3y ago
    I wasn't dismissing their preference. > I have a very healthy social life outside of work but full time remote work at home feels isolating and repetitive. My mind does not like the lack of separation between home and work and I've tried every trick in the book. If OP had said any of that, I wouldn't have responded in the way I did.
    - zitterbewegung 3y ago
      I have other senses of community but that doesn’t mean that working from home for long periods of time makes me feel that way.
  - CapstanRoller 3y ago
    One big problem with these preferences is that they carry an incredibly high long-term cost for society. One can't easily switch from a skyscraper to a park or apartment building. Office work culture affects how entire cities are designed.
    - 972811 3y ago
      sure - I agree with this, but I think this goes both ways. I will give a parallel situation that I think about quite a bit: cars. Cars have quite a bit of the same benefits as remote work. You can live further from work, you have independence, and quite a bit of the concrete negatives (e.g. no more crowded public transit) generally go away. But we now know that designing society around cars was a mistake. It ends up being bad for everyone and is more isolating by default. I'm similarly concerned about doing something that will make Americans more isolated by default.
- the_mar 3y ago
  > Work doesn't have to be your only source of community, and in fact, it can be problematic when it is, because then your community only lasts as long as your job. Literally all of my adult friends are former coworkers, with some of them not even becoming friends until after we quit jobs. You spend majority of your waking hours at work, where else do you make friends? Please don't say the gym.
  - kerkeslager 3y ago
    > Literally all of my adult friends are former coworkers, with some of them not even becoming friends until after we quit jobs. Ehh, some of my friends are that way too, but a lot of my work friendships have withered when there wasn't work keeping us in contact on a regular basis. > You spend majority of your waking hours at work, where else do you make friends? Please don't say the gym. It doesn't have to be the gym either. I personally have met a lot of my friends out rock climbing, but that's going to vary from person to person because you have to find things you enjoy doing. Going to the gym to meet people if you don't enjoy working out at the gym doesn't make sense. Are there other things you enjoy doing besides work? (Incidentally, I don't spend the majority of my waking hours at work).
    - the_mar 3y ago
      > Ehh, some of my friends are that way too, but a lot of my work friendships have withered when there wasn't work keeping us in contact on a regular basis. Can you really say they were your friends tho? do you think your rock climbing buddies will be your buddies after you stop? I think going to the gym is not a social activity and I am very tired of bro's giving me "feedback" on my deadlifts. Let's examine your I don't spend majority of hours claim, So there are 24 hours in the day, you work for 8, 2 hours for commuting, 1 hour for showering, taking a shits, getting dressed and all that, 1 hour for various chores, like buying groceries, laundry, cooking, etc, 1 hour for exercise, 7 hours for sleep. You have about 6 hours a day left for "fun". Last time I checked 6<8
      - kerkeslager 3y ago
- zitterbewegung 3y ago
  It isn’t my only source of community. I participate in my local python software group and also I help out with a research software package porting algorithms to it so I do have alternate places where I have communities.
- DiggyJohnson 3y ago
  > Work doesn't have to be your only source of community Sorry if this sounds blunt, I’m moments away from sleep, but this comment of yours really frustrated me. You are assuming that someone who enjoys the social aspects of working in person does so because they lack social outlets outside the workplace. That is just your assumption, and a distortion of the discussion. I see this all the time. What gives?
prepend 3y ago
> I rather have the option to going to work and I think companies should still offer a solution for that if they are able to. I love being in the office. I hate the hour commute. And I hate doubling or tripling my housing price. I prefer showering at 745 and connecting and being productive at 8 over showering at 645 and driving into work to be productive at 8 (while being in zoom meetings all day anyway). I like records too. They are so cool with nice artwork. And I like record stores. But I listen to music 99% of the time digitally. The office is the same way. It’s not that it isn’t nice. It’s that the cost of using it over better alternatives is madness, especially at scale. Imagine all the pollution saved from people driving to work.
- Karrot_Kream 3y ago
  This is very dependent on personal circumstances. Some of us live in circumstances where we're close to the office or have transit alternatives which makes the commutes fine places to get work done or nap or veg out on other things. Some of us bike to work. As another comment said, a lot of the consternation about whether or not to go to the office is based on personal circumstances.
  - prepend 3y ago
    Yes, certainly. But most don’t. So in the discussion of whether to return to the office, there’s not much good in discussing those rare options other than noting that those people are fortunate and not representative and can certainly go into the office if they like. My office had a funny interaction where when we were discussing remote work, one person remarked that they liked coming into the office on their bike and it was so pleasant. This was one of the highest paid people who lived in a $1.5M house 5 minutes away from the office. And they said this to a zoom of 100 people of which maybe half commuted from $200k houses and made $75k. Yes, that’s nice, but not useful for productive decision making. Of course the consternation is based on personal circumstances. I don’t think workers have ideological stances on remote vs office work. I think it’s based on cost and productivity and quality of life.
- matthewfcarlson 3y ago
  I feel like much of the hate towards offices comes from people with long commutes. Personally, I've resolved to never be more than a 15 minute drive or 30 minute public transportation/walk away from work and it's been wonderful. Pop into the office, say hello, have lunch with good friends, talk to the people I see, leave the office around 4:45 and I'm home before 5. I recognize that's not feasible for many people due to the cost of living in their area, but there are many places where you can work at a big FAANG company and still have a house within 20 minutes for a not great but not terrible price.
Gigachad 3y ago
Company I work at has taken to running most large meetings in person, booking out a large meeting room for half the day, and then often structuring social events around the day as well, often with paid for drinks and food. I feel like these in person get togethers are far more interactive and productive than a day of calls where most people go camera off and fall asleep 30 mins in. Actually doing work remote works mostly fine, but god I hate group calls, the latency, the bad audio, etc.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  I get that not everyone is like me but I just cannot stand those pre/post meeting socials with food and drinks. I'm just sitting there fidgiting thinking about what a completely nonproductive imposition this is on my time. If I want social time with food and drinks I want to be with family and friends. If I'm at the office I want to be working. Otherwise I don't want to be there. And Zoom anything can suck it. Full Stop.
  - Gigachad 3y ago
    They aren’t mandatory, if you want, you have the option to sit by yourself worrying about productivity while the rest of us go enjoy a drink and free pub meal.
sokoloff 3y ago
> It made me much more sedimentary You probably mean sedentary. Sedimentary would be quite extreme. :)

kerkeslager 3y ago

> I don’t totally believe that remote work is going to go completely away . I think that personally for me never going into the office wasn’t really a great experience. It made me much more sedimentary (which in tech is almost a work hazard) but that was my fault . I do like being hybrid (but also the team I was a part of basically stopped existing) so while I think it could be a combination of working from home and the team imploding made me lonely. I think a lot of people ran into these problems, but there are solutions. Work doesn't have to be your only source of community, and in fact, it can be problematic when it is, because then your community only lasts as long as your job. On the one hand you might lose your job, and on the other hand you might not quit when you should. Having connections outside work is pretty key to having work/life balance IMO.

972811 3y ago
love when commenters are just immediately dismissive of other people's preferences. I feel the same as OP. I have a very healthy social life outside of work but full time remote work at home feels isolating and repetitive. My mind does not like the lack of separation between home and work and I've tried every trick in the book. This is also true for most other activities in my life (e.g. I don't like exercising at home vs. a gym). I don't want to force people to the office, but it gets tiring hearing other people assuming I haven't tried their "solutions"
- zitterbewegung 3y ago
  Don’t worry it’s not the worst one. That one was where I said I liked the Apple Keyboard on the 12 inch model and that I didn’t experience many keyboards but I have used an IBM model M, Corsair k70 and various other ones. So you can get keyboard shamed…
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  I wasn't dismissing their preference. > I have a very healthy social life outside of work but full time remote work at home feels isolating and repetitive. My mind does not like the lack of separation between home and work and I've tried every trick in the book. If OP had said any of that, I wouldn't have responded in the way I did.
  - zitterbewegung 3y ago
    I have other senses of community but that doesn’t mean that working from home for long periods of time makes me feel that way.
- CapstanRoller 3y ago
  One big problem with these preferences is that they carry an incredibly high long-term cost for society. One can't easily switch from a skyscraper to a park or apartment building. Office work culture affects how entire cities are designed.
  - 972811 3y ago
    sure - I agree with this, but I think this goes both ways. I will give a parallel situation that I think about quite a bit: cars. Cars have quite a bit of the same benefits as remote work. You can live further from work, you have independence, and quite a bit of the concrete negatives (e.g. no more crowded public transit) generally go away. But we now know that designing society around cars was a mistake. It ends up being bad for everyone and is more isolating by default. I'm similarly concerned about doing something that will make Americans more isolated by default.
the_mar 3y ago
> Work doesn't have to be your only source of community, and in fact, it can be problematic when it is, because then your community only lasts as long as your job. Literally all of my adult friends are former coworkers, with some of them not even becoming friends until after we quit jobs. You spend majority of your waking hours at work, where else do you make friends? Please don't say the gym.
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  > Literally all of my adult friends are former coworkers, with some of them not even becoming friends until after we quit jobs. Ehh, some of my friends are that way too, but a lot of my work friendships have withered when there wasn't work keeping us in contact on a regular basis. > You spend majority of your waking hours at work, where else do you make friends? Please don't say the gym. It doesn't have to be the gym either. I personally have met a lot of my friends out rock climbing, but that's going to vary from person to person because you have to find things you enjoy doing. Going to the gym to meet people if you don't enjoy working out at the gym doesn't make sense. Are there other things you enjoy doing besides work? (Incidentally, I don't spend the majority of my waking hours at work).
  - the_mar 3y ago
    > Ehh, some of my friends are that way too, but a lot of my work friendships have withered when there wasn't work keeping us in contact on a regular basis. Can you really say they were your friends tho? do you think your rock climbing buddies will be your buddies after you stop? I think going to the gym is not a social activity and I am very tired of bro's giving me "feedback" on my deadlifts. Let's examine your I don't spend majority of hours claim, So there are 24 hours in the day, you work for 8, 2 hours for commuting, 1 hour for showering, taking a shits, getting dressed and all that, 1 hour for various chores, like buying groceries, laundry, cooking, etc, 1 hour for exercise, 7 hours for sleep. You have about 6 hours a day left for "fun". Last time I checked 6<8
    - kerkeslager 3y ago
zitterbewegung 3y ago
It isn’t my only source of community. I participate in my local python software group and also I help out with a research software package porting algorithms to it so I do have alternate places where I have communities.
DiggyJohnson 3y ago
> Work doesn't have to be your only source of community Sorry if this sounds blunt, I’m moments away from sleep, but this comment of yours really frustrated me. You are assuming that someone who enjoys the social aspects of working in person does so because they lack social outlets outside the workplace. That is just your assumption, and a distortion of the discussion. I see this all the time. What gives?

prepend 3y ago

> I rather have the option to going to work and I think companies should still offer a solution for that if they are able to. I love being in the office. I hate the hour commute. And I hate doubling or tripling my housing price. I prefer showering at 745 and connecting and being productive at 8 over showering at 645 and driving into work to be productive at 8 (while being in zoom meetings all day anyway). I like records too. They are so cool with nice artwork. And I like record stores. But I listen to music 99% of the time digitally. The office is the same way. It’s not that it isn’t nice. It’s that the cost of using it over better alternatives is madness, especially at scale. Imagine all the pollution saved from people driving to work.

Karrot_Kream 3y ago
This is very dependent on personal circumstances. Some of us live in circumstances where we're close to the office or have transit alternatives which makes the commutes fine places to get work done or nap or veg out on other things. Some of us bike to work. As another comment said, a lot of the consternation about whether or not to go to the office is based on personal circumstances.
- prepend 3y ago
  Yes, certainly. But most don’t. So in the discussion of whether to return to the office, there’s not much good in discussing those rare options other than noting that those people are fortunate and not representative and can certainly go into the office if they like. My office had a funny interaction where when we were discussing remote work, one person remarked that they liked coming into the office on their bike and it was so pleasant. This was one of the highest paid people who lived in a $1.5M house 5 minutes away from the office. And they said this to a zoom of 100 people of which maybe half commuted from $200k houses and made $75k. Yes, that’s nice, but not useful for productive decision making. Of course the consternation is based on personal circumstances. I don’t think workers have ideological stances on remote vs office work. I think it’s based on cost and productivity and quality of life.
matthewfcarlson 3y ago
I feel like much of the hate towards offices comes from people with long commutes. Personally, I've resolved to never be more than a 15 minute drive or 30 minute public transportation/walk away from work and it's been wonderful. Pop into the office, say hello, have lunch with good friends, talk to the people I see, leave the office around 4:45 and I'm home before 5. I recognize that's not feasible for many people due to the cost of living in their area, but there are many places where you can work at a big FAANG company and still have a house within 20 minutes for a not great but not terrible price.

Gigachad 3y ago

Company I work at has taken to running most large meetings in person, booking out a large meeting room for half the day, and then often structuring social events around the day as well, often with paid for drinks and food. I feel like these in person get togethers are far more interactive and productive than a day of calls where most people go camera off and fall asleep 30 mins in. Actually doing work remote works mostly fine, but god I hate group calls, the latency, the bad audio, etc.

SoftTalker 3y ago
I get that not everyone is like me but I just cannot stand those pre/post meeting socials with food and drinks. I'm just sitting there fidgiting thinking about what a completely nonproductive imposition this is on my time. If I want social time with food and drinks I want to be with family and friends. If I'm at the office I want to be working. Otherwise I don't want to be there. And Zoom anything can suck it. Full Stop.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  They aren’t mandatory, if you want, you have the option to sit by yourself worrying about productivity while the rest of us go enjoy a drink and free pub meal.

sokoloff 3y ago

> It made me much more sedimentary You probably mean sedentary. Sedimentary would be quite extreme. :)