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Pretending that the employer is paying taxes for the employees is doublespeak popularized by large companies to justify why they want to stop paying it. It is

Pretending that the employer is paying taxes for the employees is doublespeak popularized by large companies to justify why they want to stop paying it. It is not taxes. It's a contribution to a functioning society. Otherwise, employers would get access to employees with NHS without putting a penny in.

vkou 3y ago
It is taxes. Taxes are a contribution to a functioning society, though! There's nothing wrong with them when they are used well! > Otherwise, employers would get access to employees with NHS without putting a penny in. It doesn't matter how you slice it, the penny still comes out of payroll. It makes zero difference to me if I get paid 50,000, and 10,000 of that goes to taxes, or if I get paid 40,000 and my employer pays 10,000 in taxes. But it sure causes a lot of spilled ink about whether or not its 'really a tax' and 'who pays'.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> It is not taxes. It's a contribution to a functioning society That’s what taxes in general are, so the second half does not support the first. > Otherwise, employers would get access to employees with NHS without putting a penny in. The idea that payroll taxes are a fee that employers pay the State for “access” to workers and that this is a defense rather than a criticism of the scheme is... interesting.
- ohgodplsno 3y ago
  Nope. Words have a meaning. Contributions are dedicated to a specific thing. Nobody can take the money of the Build-Hospitals contribution and use it to Build-Death-Star. Taxes however can go anywhere. Once again, "payroll tax" is language invented by employers to make it feel like they're being unjustly taxed. Additionally, in the case of Europe, most of these contributions were set up after WW2 because employers were happy enough to collaborate with the occupiers and kept wanting cheap labour without participating in rebuilding nations. So, sorry, I won't cry about them having to pay their fair share.

vkou 3y ago

It is taxes. Taxes are a contribution to a functioning society, though! There's nothing wrong with them when they are used well! > Otherwise, employers would get access to employees with NHS without putting a penny in. It doesn't matter how you slice it, the penny still comes out of payroll. It makes zero difference to me if I get paid 50,000, and 10,000 of that goes to taxes, or if I get paid 40,000 and my employer pays 10,000 in taxes. But it sure causes a lot of spilled ink about whether or not its 'really a tax' and 'who pays'.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> It is not taxes. It's a contribution to a functioning society That’s what taxes in general are, so the second half does not support the first. > Otherwise, employers would get access to employees with NHS without putting a penny in. The idea that payroll taxes are a fee that employers pay the State for “access” to workers and that this is a defense rather than a criticism of the scheme is... interesting.

ohgodplsno 3y ago
Nope. Words have a meaning. Contributions are dedicated to a specific thing. Nobody can take the money of the Build-Hospitals contribution and use it to Build-Death-Star. Taxes however can go anywhere. Once again, "payroll tax" is language invented by employers to make it feel like they're being unjustly taxed. Additionally, in the case of Europe, most of these contributions were set up after WW2 because employers were happy enough to collaborate with the occupiers and kept wanting cheap labour without participating in rebuilding nations. So, sorry, I won't cry about them having to pay their fair share.