Discord has these exact same problems, arguably worse because the echo chamber develops behind closed, un-indexable doors and crawlers can't archive any content

Discord has these exact same problems, arguably worse because the echo chamber develops behind closed, un-indexable doors and crawlers can't archive any content before the moderators censor it. If clearnet can't see it, it's inherently of less utility to me. Subreddits can make themselves more like Discord via private subs or approval-only posting but the majority of subs aren't this way. Reddit has a nice wiki feature. Downvoting doesn't remove posts. This is all great. The only thing better than reddit would be a standard MediaWiki instance or regular old web forum. Something less centralized. And yes, your web forum run by a cabal of mods could devolve into a censured echo chamber just like any niche subreddit, but this will never not be a problem. As long as my censured echo chambers are visible to web crawlers, the collective Internet can retain SOME level of agency. Even 4chan boards are archived in several places. Despite inconsistent moderation, bad-faith dialog and the fact that it's ostensibly an echo chamber - we at least KNOW exactly what it is because there's a paper trail. On the flip side, HN has its own paper trail of good-faith dialog here: https://hn.algolia.com/ https://hn.algolia.com/ Discord is a black hole. And worse - it's tens of thousands of niche black holes, each one representing a community that otherwise would have found its home on the clearnet.