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It can be accurate but she is also totally within her rights to not listen to him. Do as I say not as I do has never been effective. If we want less war we need

It can be accurate but she is also totally within her rights to not listen to him. Do as I say not as I do has never been effective. If we want less war we need to set an example not raise the share price of our private defence contractors at the expense of civilians while wagging our finger. Also the powers that be in the US want a war in Ukraine as much as Putin does. Probably moreso. They are selling a lot of killing machines.

ceejayoz 3y ago
> It can be accurate but she is also totally within her rights to not listen to him. She might not be wise to. An obese doctor advising an obese patient to lose weight because of health problems still has a potentially valid point. The obese doctor might even have more useful perspective than another doctor on the issue. > If we want less war we need to set an example... I'm pretty sure that's what we're doing in Ukraine. China certainly would be wise to consider what a Taiwan invasion would look like if the US and allies decided to assist in a similar fashion. > Also the powers that be in the US want a war in Ukraine as much as Putin does. Probably moreso. They are selling a lot of killing machines. Sure. Ted Bundy and I both like to eat; that doesn't automatically make eating bad. This is precisely why we have to evaluate the actual specific scenario in question on its merits.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  > I'm pretty sure that's what we're doing in Ukraine. If we wanted to set an example we would declare war on Russia. Instead we send billions of dollars into a the unaccountable void that is the most corrupt country in Europe.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > If we wanted to set an example we would declare war on Russia. This is not an argument made in good faith.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      Look man, if really believe in this stuff the military is really struggling to find recruits right now. A lot of people are disillusioned with the forever wars as their nations infrastructure crumbles around them, costs rise to unsustainable levels and their streets are full of homeless. They watch the VA fail to serve veterans and remember the lies they were told by the elderly politicians who still haven't been replaced. You on the other hand appear to have strong convictions about this conflict, rather than costing my daughter her future via debt spending are you willing to be the boots on the ground to make sure justice is served?
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        My boots on the ground mean nuclear holocaust due to open war between Russia and NATO, which probably impacts your daughter a bit. If you'd told a Cold Warrior in the 80s it'd cost 10% of a single year's military budget to kneecap Russia's military without firing a shot, they'd have laughed at you; it's probably the most effective military spending we've done since WWII. Americans are simultaneously down on "forever wars" and supportive of Ukraine assistance. Your attempt to connect the two concepts doesn't seem to be a widely shared position in the American public.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        > My boots on the ground mean nuclear holocaust due to open war between Russia and NATO, which probably impacts your daughter a bit. Oh but if you were to say, build a fighter jet and then go to Ukraine and teach the Ukrainians on how to use the jet to kill Russians, there is no way that will result in nuclear war? I'll take that as a no on the "go die for the war machine" plan.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        There's direct evidence of that, yes. HIMARs, Bradleys, etc. all active in Ukraine, but importantly, manned by Ukrainians. We're also clearly providing plenty of training and intelligence support. NATO troops actively shooting folks in the Donbas would be a very different scenario, one we're rightly avoiding. For the sake of folks like your daughter.

ceejayoz 3y ago

> It can be accurate but she is also totally within her rights to not listen to him. She might not be wise to. An obese doctor advising an obese patient to lose weight because of health problems still has a potentially valid point. The obese doctor might even have more useful perspective than another doctor on the issue. > If we want less war we need to set an example... I'm pretty sure that's what we're doing in Ukraine. China certainly would be wise to consider what a Taiwan invasion would look like if the US and allies decided to assist in a similar fashion. > Also the powers that be in the US want a war in Ukraine as much as Putin does. Probably moreso. They are selling a lot of killing machines. Sure. Ted Bundy and I both like to eat; that doesn't automatically make eating bad. This is precisely why we have to evaluate the actual specific scenario in question on its merits.

willcipriano 3y ago
> I'm pretty sure that's what we're doing in Ukraine. If we wanted to set an example we would declare war on Russia. Instead we send billions of dollars into a the unaccountable void that is the most corrupt country in Europe.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  > If we wanted to set an example we would declare war on Russia. This is not an argument made in good faith.
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    Look man, if really believe in this stuff the military is really struggling to find recruits right now. A lot of people are disillusioned with the forever wars as their nations infrastructure crumbles around them, costs rise to unsustainable levels and their streets are full of homeless. They watch the VA fail to serve veterans and remember the lies they were told by the elderly politicians who still haven't been replaced. You on the other hand appear to have strong convictions about this conflict, rather than costing my daughter her future via debt spending are you willing to be the boots on the ground to make sure justice is served?
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      My boots on the ground mean nuclear holocaust due to open war between Russia and NATO, which probably impacts your daughter a bit. If you'd told a Cold Warrior in the 80s it'd cost 10% of a single year's military budget to kneecap Russia's military without firing a shot, they'd have laughed at you; it's probably the most effective military spending we've done since WWII. Americans are simultaneously down on "forever wars" and supportive of Ukraine assistance. Your attempt to connect the two concepts doesn't seem to be a widely shared position in the American public.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        > My boots on the ground mean nuclear holocaust due to open war between Russia and NATO, which probably impacts your daughter a bit. Oh but if you were to say, build a fighter jet and then go to Ukraine and teach the Ukrainians on how to use the jet to kill Russians, there is no way that will result in nuclear war? I'll take that as a no on the "go die for the war machine" plan.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        There's direct evidence of that, yes. HIMARs, Bradleys, etc. all active in Ukraine, but importantly, manned by Ukrainians. We're also clearly providing plenty of training and intelligence support. NATO troops actively shooting folks in the Donbas would be a very different scenario, one we're rightly avoiding. For the sake of folks like your daughter.