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> You have got to be kidding. Why? play the two games side by side - there is a truly enormous amount of gameplay and visual overlap. > The ability to build m

by giobox 3y ago

> You have got to be kidding. Why? play the two games side by side - there is a truly enormous amount of gameplay and visual overlap. > The ability to build machines by connecting basically anything to anything is a very impressive mechanic both from a gameplay perspective and from a technical perspective. The fact that they built this to run this nicely on an 8 year old tablet is frankly incredible. Many reviews (and myself!) find this addition to be cool but shallow? Also, while cool, its not technically mega avant garde here- "Banjo Kazooie nuts and bolts" attempted similar thing back in 2008. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banjo-Kazooie:_Nuts_%26_Bolts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banjo-Kazooie:_Nuts_%26_Bolts > Even the little ability to jump through a ceiling to travel upwards to the nearest place to stand is incredible, considering you can do it anywhere that has a ceiling in range. That mechanic is honestly mind blowing from a technical perspective imo. I found this to be the least impressive of all Link's new abilities personally, and fail to see it in terms of being some unreal technical breakthrough? It's literally just a jump through the surface directly above the player's head.

bluefirebrand 3y ago
> I found this to be the least impressive of all Link's new abilities personally, and fail to see it in terms of being some unreal technical breakthrough? It's literally just a jump through the surface directly above the player's head. Implementing Jumping through one-way platforms is easy. Implementing Jumping through anything, no matter how deep, and detecting the first safe place for him to stand, as well as having the ability to back out at any time to return to your original position, especially in a huge open world game like this? I'd say it's pretty technically impressive. Especially how fast it loads when showing the little upwards swimming animation. You can use this ability in the underground in some places to pop up anywhere on the overworld. From the bottom of the world to the highest mountain. It's way more impressive than just jumping through things. > Many reviews (and myself!) find this addition to be cool but shallow? Also, while cool, its not technically mega avant garde here- "Banjo Kazooie nuts and bolts" attempted similar thing back in 2008. I never said it was some unique thing no one has ever done before. But it's definitely not shallow, you only have to look for videos showing the crazy things people are building to see how it's mechanically super deep. I never played Banjo Kazooie but Im guessing it didn't have nearly the level of physics simulation, or the number of parts that are usable, or anywhere near the size of world that Zelda has. That's why it is technically impressive. Not just the mechanic, but the context that the mechanic is in.
- giobox 3y ago
  > Implementing Jumping through anything, no matter how deep, and detecting the first safe place for him to stand, as well as having the ability to back out at any time to return to your original position, especially in a huge open world game like this? I'd say it's pretty technically impressive. Especially how fast it loads when showing the little upwards swimming animation. Its 2023, if this blows you away wait until you see what else even 8 year old computers can do... > But it's definitely not shallow, you only have to look for videos showing the crazy things people are building to see how it's mechanically super deep. Building things for the sake of building is not really adding depth to the "game" as such, the mechanic contributes very little to the gameplay of the game. Indeed, you can almost completely avoid it save for a handful of mandatory sections. IMO, the best mechanics add depth to the gameplay and make the whole game richer, which this feature doesn't really do, its a very ancillary feature to the game. FWIW, the part list on nuts and bolts was pretty good, and had great physics while being a core conceit of the game. > https://banjokazooie.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_parts https://banjokazooie.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_parts
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    > Its 2023, if this blows you away wait until you see what else even 8 year old computers can do... Like what? Another generic Sony open world game? If this sort of thing was so easy, why don't other AAA studios make anything remotely as interesting? > which this feature doesn't really do, its a very ancillary feature to the game This is honestly not even close to true. I'm not even sure you're playing the same game as me. You can't solve 90% of the puzzles in this game without engaging heavily with the new mechanic. Hell, there's honestly large parts of the world you cannot traverse without it either. You can't reach large parts of the Sky without it for instance. I genuinely don't know how you could play this game and come away thinking it doesn't do anything very interesting mechanically or technically.
    - philistine 3y ago
      That’s the secret, they haven’t played it. If someone like that cannot see the technical wizardry done to make Tears run this smoothly with its exquisite set of parlour tricks, and has the gall to believe the game is the same as Breath, it’s because they haven’t really paid attention and think the reused map is the whole story. And the whole thing about Kazooie having done it before, keep in mind that game was a giant failure. It wasn’t fun. Nintendo managed to make building vehicles and contraptions fun!

by giobox 3y ago

bluefirebrand 3y ago

> I found this to be the least impressive of all Link's new abilities personally, and fail to see it in terms of being some unreal technical breakthrough? It's literally just a jump through the surface directly above the player's head. Implementing Jumping through one-way platforms is easy. Implementing Jumping through anything, no matter how deep, and detecting the first safe place for him to stand, as well as having the ability to back out at any time to return to your original position, especially in a huge open world game like this? I'd say it's pretty technically impressive. Especially how fast it loads when showing the little upwards swimming animation. You can use this ability in the underground in some places to pop up anywhere on the overworld. From the bottom of the world to the highest mountain. It's way more impressive than just jumping through things. > Many reviews (and myself!) find this addition to be cool but shallow? Also, while cool, its not technically mega avant garde here- "Banjo Kazooie nuts and bolts" attempted similar thing back in 2008. I never said it was some unique thing no one has ever done before. But it's definitely not shallow, you only have to look for videos showing the crazy things people are building to see how it's mechanically super deep. I never played Banjo Kazooie but Im guessing it didn't have nearly the level of physics simulation, or the number of parts that are usable, or anywhere near the size of world that Zelda has. That's why it is technically impressive. Not just the mechanic, but the context that the mechanic is in.

giobox 3y ago
> Implementing Jumping through anything, no matter how deep, and detecting the first safe place for him to stand, as well as having the ability to back out at any time to return to your original position, especially in a huge open world game like this? I'd say it's pretty technically impressive. Especially how fast it loads when showing the little upwards swimming animation. Its 2023, if this blows you away wait until you see what else even 8 year old computers can do... > But it's definitely not shallow, you only have to look for videos showing the crazy things people are building to see how it's mechanically super deep. Building things for the sake of building is not really adding depth to the "game" as such, the mechanic contributes very little to the gameplay of the game. Indeed, you can almost completely avoid it save for a handful of mandatory sections. IMO, the best mechanics add depth to the gameplay and make the whole game richer, which this feature doesn't really do, its a very ancillary feature to the game. FWIW, the part list on nuts and bolts was pretty good, and had great physics while being a core conceit of the game. > https://banjokazooie.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_parts https://banjokazooie.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_parts
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  > Its 2023, if this blows you away wait until you see what else even 8 year old computers can do... Like what? Another generic Sony open world game? If this sort of thing was so easy, why don't other AAA studios make anything remotely as interesting? > which this feature doesn't really do, its a very ancillary feature to the game This is honestly not even close to true. I'm not even sure you're playing the same game as me. You can't solve 90% of the puzzles in this game without engaging heavily with the new mechanic. Hell, there's honestly large parts of the world you cannot traverse without it either. You can't reach large parts of the Sky without it for instance. I genuinely don't know how you could play this game and come away thinking it doesn't do anything very interesting mechanically or technically.
  - philistine 3y ago
    That’s the secret, they haven’t played it. If someone like that cannot see the technical wizardry done to make Tears run this smoothly with its exquisite set of parlour tricks, and has the gall to believe the game is the same as Breath, it’s because they haven’t really paid attention and think the reused map is the whole story. And the whole thing about Kazooie having done it before, keep in mind that game was a giant failure. It wasn’t fun. Nintendo managed to make building vehicles and contraptions fun!