6 ms·

Since os 8.something I've always felt that my mac is a workhorse. It's like I've had to have a mac, I a professional designer damnit. But this update feels lik

by ed209 15y ago

Since os 8.something I've always felt that my mac is a workhorse. It's like I've had to have a mac, I a professional designer damnit. But this update feels like it's creeping towards a heavily consumer facing product. My workhorse is being swapped for a show pony... (no doubt it'll still do the job, it just a totally unfounded feeling I have)

batista 15y ago
But this update feels like it's creeping towards a heavily consumer facing product. Two questions: 1) you think you are different than a consumer how? 2) what exactly do you see this update taking away from you?
- ed209 15y ago
  1) When I started on mac it was targeted at (mostly) professionals in desktop publishing etc. So it was more B2B than B2C. I accept that this has been changing for a long time already, probably since OSX. Now I am a consumer, that's my point. 2) Nothing. But now I'm buying a consumer product to do my work. It's like Iron Maiden using Garageband, or Philip Halsman using Instagram. (not that I would compare myself to them, but you get the idea)
  - robryan 15y ago
    It feels to me like the problem people have here is pretty much all in the marketing. You still have all the features and more from when you considered it a creative professionals machine, it's just the feel imparted by the focus and marketing is different.
    - ed209 15y ago
      it's even more than that. they made (are making) the tools so accessible to everyone, that what was once considered a craft (fine tuning a $50,000 recording desk) has now been reduced to a few settings on an $800 laptop. That's just way of the world, I'm not complaining, it's great to get these creative tools to as many people as possible. But my original point still stands. Of course you still have to have a tallent to make anything of these tools, no matter how point-and-click they are, even so they're robbing me of that feeling of achievement and pride that I had in being able to handle a tool that not many could... and yes, I'm aware that I'm beginning to sound like an old man.
- dkarl 15y ago
  1) you think you are different than a consumer how? Anybody reading this page is likely to be told they aren't a "consumer." I was having that problem with Ubuntu Linux, for goodness' sake, though in Linux they call it a "Real Person(tm)" instead of a consumer. As in, "Of course XYZ doesn't work out of the box if you run an alternative window manager, because a Real Person doesn't run alternative window managers, and Ubuntu is for Real People." Based on that, I think it's a valid concern that in focusing on "consumers" or "normal people" or however you want to put it, Apple might fail to take care of the artists, designers, and musicians who have historically been a strong part of its user base. One consistent goal for the Mac has been to be a computer for people who don't want to learn how to use their computer. That could be interpreted to exclude designers, artists, musicians, and so on, because they use very sophisticated software tools with steep learning curves. It would be very easy to lose sight of the distinction between people who enjoy having a sophisticated understanding of their computer (nerrrrds! not a high value or high prestige market) and people who have to use sophisticated software to get their work done (artists, designers, directors, musicians -- a high prestige, trendsetting market.)
- gurkendoktor 15y ago
  > 1) you think you are different than a consumer how? For me the distinction is this. If a feature is being taken from a consumer (e.g., me as a consumer), I say bummer and find a new hobby. No Apple remote and Front Row anymore? Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. If I use a feature in a professional workflow and it disappears, then I want at the very least a big fat warning before upgrading, but it'd be better if nothing disappeared altogether; or alternatively, if I could stay on the older version. The current trend with Apple is to radically drop features that are only used by <n% of users and to always require the latest OS for everything. You cannot sync contacts off a 32-bit Mac anymore because MobileMe is running out and Lion/iCloud is 64-bit only. And on my 64-bit machine, I only found out that iSync was gone after I upgraded and held a (replacement) dumbphone in my hand. Or look at OS X server, which I am happy I didn't buy. The reviews on the MAS are devastating and I was wondering if it would ever rise from beta software quality. If you relied on OS X server, well joke's on you. That said, I think 10.8 in particular is only 10.7 with lipstick to directly compete against Windows 8. (Notice even the version numbers?) But 10.7 did cause lots of damage.
  - billpatrianakos 15y ago
    I'm not happy with the way things are headed either and you make some good points but I think you were out of line with the version number comment. Apple isn't trying to compete with Windows, at least not in the way you're implying. They're a whole different animal and they're setting the pace for everyone else, not the other way around. In any case, as far as version numbers go, OS X jumps one full decimal with each major release. Mountain Lion being 10.8 is not marketing (if it is it has nothing to do with windows) its pure coincidence. If anything Windows is using version numbers for marketing purposes. Win7 came out when OS X 10.7 was out and if I'm not mistaken, Windows is actually at version 6.2 if I remember right. If you don't believe me then open up a DOS prompt and ask it yourself.
  - jsz0 15y ago
    The current trend with Apple is to radically drop features Such as?
    - 15y ago
mitchellhislop 15y ago
Why is it that a consumer product can not also be a workhorse? I have been running Lion and do not feel that it makes my computer less of a workhorse. I dont think that ML will make it less of a workhorse. I see this update as adding a bunch of stuff, some of which will be useful to developers, and not removing anything that made me fall in love with my Mac as a dev platform.
- vacri 15y ago
  For similar reasons that automatic transmissions aren't used in racing cars
freehunter 15y ago
As a non-Mac-user, I've always had the impression (from Apple and the general public) that Macs are consumer-oriented devices (or at least non-corporate machines). The only significant impact they've had in business in my view is for creative professionals like yourself, and only because for a while Adobe tools worked better on Mac (which may or may not be the case anymore). Schools used Macs because they were cheap (for the schools). Creatives used Macs because the tools were better. 99% of the other Mac users used Macs because it was more consumer friendly than the business-oriented Windows. Apple has never been in the business of catering to business.
- rimantas 15y ago
  And a bunch of developers use Macs because they offer sane GUI on the top of UNIX.
  - dean 15y ago
    Well, Unix anyway, meaning a useful command line. The GUI I could take or leave.
    - mburns 15y ago
      To be clear, Mac OS X is UNIX certified, not just Unix-like.

by ed209 15y ago

batista 15y ago

But this update feels like it's creeping towards a heavily consumer facing product. Two questions: 1) you think you are different than a consumer how? 2) what exactly do you see this update taking away from you?

ed209 15y ago
1) When I started on mac it was targeted at (mostly) professionals in desktop publishing etc. So it was more B2B than B2C. I accept that this has been changing for a long time already, probably since OSX. Now I am a consumer, that's my point. 2) Nothing. But now I'm buying a consumer product to do my work. It's like Iron Maiden using Garageband, or Philip Halsman using Instagram. (not that I would compare myself to them, but you get the idea)
- robryan 15y ago
  It feels to me like the problem people have here is pretty much all in the marketing. You still have all the features and more from when you considered it a creative professionals machine, it's just the feel imparted by the focus and marketing is different.
  - ed209 15y ago
    it's even more than that. they made (are making) the tools so accessible to everyone, that what was once considered a craft (fine tuning a $50,000 recording desk) has now been reduced to a few settings on an $800 laptop. That's just way of the world, I'm not complaining, it's great to get these creative tools to as many people as possible. But my original point still stands. Of course you still have to have a tallent to make anything of these tools, no matter how point-and-click they are, even so they're robbing me of that feeling of achievement and pride that I had in being able to handle a tool that not many could... and yes, I'm aware that I'm beginning to sound like an old man.
dkarl 15y ago
1) you think you are different than a consumer how? Anybody reading this page is likely to be told they aren't a "consumer." I was having that problem with Ubuntu Linux, for goodness' sake, though in Linux they call it a "Real Person(tm)" instead of a consumer. As in, "Of course XYZ doesn't work out of the box if you run an alternative window manager, because a Real Person doesn't run alternative window managers, and Ubuntu is for Real People." Based on that, I think it's a valid concern that in focusing on "consumers" or "normal people" or however you want to put it, Apple might fail to take care of the artists, designers, and musicians who have historically been a strong part of its user base. One consistent goal for the Mac has been to be a computer for people who don't want to learn how to use their computer. That could be interpreted to exclude designers, artists, musicians, and so on, because they use very sophisticated software tools with steep learning curves. It would be very easy to lose sight of the distinction between people who enjoy having a sophisticated understanding of their computer (nerrrrds! not a high value or high prestige market) and people who have to use sophisticated software to get their work done (artists, designers, directors, musicians -- a high prestige, trendsetting market.)
gurkendoktor 15y ago
> 1) you think you are different than a consumer how? For me the distinction is this. If a feature is being taken from a consumer (e.g., me as a consumer), I say bummer and find a new hobby. No Apple remote and Front Row anymore? Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. If I use a feature in a professional workflow and it disappears, then I want at the very least a big fat warning before upgrading, but it'd be better if nothing disappeared altogether; or alternatively, if I could stay on the older version. The current trend with Apple is to radically drop features that are only used by <n% of users and to always require the latest OS for everything. You cannot sync contacts off a 32-bit Mac anymore because MobileMe is running out and Lion/iCloud is 64-bit only. And on my 64-bit machine, I only found out that iSync was gone after I upgraded and held a (replacement) dumbphone in my hand. Or look at OS X server, which I am happy I didn't buy. The reviews on the MAS are devastating and I was wondering if it would ever rise from beta software quality. If you relied on OS X server, well joke's on you. That said, I think 10.8 in particular is only 10.7 with lipstick to directly compete against Windows 8. (Notice even the version numbers?) But 10.7 did cause lots of damage.
- billpatrianakos 15y ago
  I'm not happy with the way things are headed either and you make some good points but I think you were out of line with the version number comment. Apple isn't trying to compete with Windows, at least not in the way you're implying. They're a whole different animal and they're setting the pace for everyone else, not the other way around. In any case, as far as version numbers go, OS X jumps one full decimal with each major release. Mountain Lion being 10.8 is not marketing (if it is it has nothing to do with windows) its pure coincidence. If anything Windows is using version numbers for marketing purposes. Win7 came out when OS X 10.7 was out and if I'm not mistaken, Windows is actually at version 6.2 if I remember right. If you don't believe me then open up a DOS prompt and ask it yourself.
- jsz0 15y ago
  The current trend with Apple is to radically drop features Such as?
  - 15y ago

mitchellhislop 15y ago

Why is it that a consumer product can not also be a workhorse? I have been running Lion and do not feel that it makes my computer less of a workhorse. I dont think that ML will make it less of a workhorse. I see this update as adding a bunch of stuff, some of which will be useful to developers, and not removing anything that made me fall in love with my Mac as a dev platform.

vacri 15y ago
For similar reasons that automatic transmissions aren't used in racing cars

freehunter 15y ago

As a non-Mac-user, I've always had the impression (from Apple and the general public) that Macs are consumer-oriented devices (or at least non-corporate machines). The only significant impact they've had in business in my view is for creative professionals like yourself, and only because for a while Adobe tools worked better on Mac (which may or may not be the case anymore). Schools used Macs because they were cheap (for the schools). Creatives used Macs because the tools were better. 99% of the other Mac users used Macs because it was more consumer friendly than the business-oriented Windows. Apple has never been in the business of catering to business.

rimantas 15y ago
And a bunch of developers use Macs because they offer sane GUI on the top of UNIX.
- dean 15y ago
  Well, Unix anyway, meaning a useful command line. The GUI I could take or leave.
  - mburns 15y ago
    To be clear, Mac OS X is UNIX certified, not just Unix-like.