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>That has sparked conspiracy theories, similar to those leveled against high-level meetings like the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, by those who cl

>That has sparked conspiracy theories, similar to those leveled against high-level meetings like the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, by those who claim attendees are seeking to establish a “new world order.” However, the event’s organizers say that the discrete nature of it is to allow for greater freedom of discussion. I don't think I've ever experienced such levels of gaslighting from the corporate media until this. Am I crazy for thinking we have few reasons to trust these "elites" or even believe what they say?

golemotron 3y ago
> "OpenAI CEO Sam Altman will join forces with key leadership from Microsoft, DeepMind and Google on Thursday as the secretive Bilderberg Meeting kick-starts." Note to self: read up on anti-trust.
jasmer 3y ago
The Bilderbergers you don't need to worry about but the WEF are trying to establish a New World Order right out in the open. It's fairly open in that there is coverage, and 'just having a meeting' isn't directly nefarious, but it's fundamentally anti-democratic. Elitism is a serious problem and it's not a traditional classicist issue it doesn't matter how these people were born and raised, it's the detachment from material reality that happens when they get into their roles and get starry eyed utopianist. The Canadian government sends a lot of people there and current leadership were all 'anointed' as 'young leaders' from the WEF, while the bureaucracy itself is a dysfunctional mess. We need a 'How Governments Can Stop Being Corrupt And Actually Do Productive Stuff Forum' instead of the WEF which is 'champagne globalism' where they talk about whatever was in Atlantic, and go to McKinsey hosted parties that are extremely lame. In other words, just like a startup, it's 'execution' and that thought doesn't even cross their minds. WEF is like 'geopolitical gossip fireside chillout'.
pkphilip 3y ago
Yes, it is crazy to think that so many people believe that the elites have our best interest at heart.. that they will never connive for their own narrow self-interest... that they are meeting in secret for years purely out of the goodness of their hearts. The fact that the corporate media pushes this narrative ought to tell us something.
JohnFen 3y ago
> Am I crazy for thinking we have few reasons to trust these "elites" or even believe what they say? Not at all. We have an extensive history showing that they can't be trusted or believed without evidence. But, in my opinion, the right response isn't to disbelieve everything they say, either. It's to note they said it (because what they say does give clues as to what they're planning to do) but not to allow their statements alone to carry much weight in terms of determining truth.
skybrian 3y ago
I don’t see how “gaslighting” applies. The quote doesn’t say anything, so it’s not a lie. It says they got together to talk, which is what a meeting is for. Nothing about any agenda is disclosed. They are having a meeting because they want to have a meeting. Unless you know something the rest of us don’t.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  "Gaslighting" has become a fashionable thing to say, but lately, I've rarely heard it used to refer to actual gaslighting. I think that a lot of people don't actually know what it means. I saw a YouTuber make a great joke about that that demonstrates actual gaslighting. "You told me that you love to be gaslit, remember?"
aeternum 3y ago
It's just word choice being used to influence reader perception. For example, simple "change" or even welcoming progressive ideas is perceived by other groups to be advocating for a new world order. Notice how you can also call them capitalist elites, oligarchs, or successful business leaders depending on the sentiment you wish to portray.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Even with your own apparent line of reasoning, this would be absurd. Why on Earth would the world "elites" desire to establish a "new world order", given that the current "world order" seems to be working just great for them. I'm so sick of conspiracy theories that aren't even self-consistent, even if you do take at face value the cartoon characterization of the bad guys.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > Why on Earth would the world "elites" desire to establish a "new world order", given that the current "world order" seems to be working just great for them. I'd disagree with this, from the sense of - one thing that has proven almost universally consistent throughout all human history: there is no such thing as too much power, or too much wealth. People, when given these things, crave more. It's not even necessarily a _character_ failing - it's the same feedback loops to various receptors in our brain.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Again, even taking your opinion regarding "there is no such thing as too much power, or too much wealth" 100% at face value (which I also happen to pretty much agree with): The richest segments of global society have grown much richer and more powerful for nearly half a century. If your goal is to grow your wealth and power pretty much at all costs, again, the "current world order" is working great for the elites - why would they risk f'ing that up?
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      Well, as you say, the current world order is working great for them. So perhaps the "new world order" isn't "throw it all away and rebuild from scratch", but a careful polishing and refining of all the things that are currently working well for the elite. A min-max'ing, so to speak.
jstarfish 3y ago
You're reading it wrong. Try re-reading it literally: > the discrete [sic] nature of it is to allow for greater freedom of discussion. Meeting in secret greatly increases freedom of discussion for the participants involved. They can talk about literally anything without the media sniffing around. This has nothing to do with freedom for you and I, nor is that implied anywhere. Their statement is actually refreshingly honest; these people don't bother with gaslighting anymore, they outright tell you they're fucking you because nobody can do anything about it anyway.
tastyfreeze 3y ago
The media is owned by people that participate in Davos. Can't expect anything other than cover from a mouthpiece. Of course you shouldn't believe them. Nobody has more interest in your wellbeing than yourself. People saying how the plebs should live have an agenda. WEF states their goals on their website without actually saying how they will be achieved. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/now-is-the-time-for-a-great-reset/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/now-is-the-time-for-a...

golemotron 3y ago

> "OpenAI CEO Sam Altman will join forces with key leadership from Microsoft, DeepMind and Google on Thursday as the secretive Bilderberg Meeting kick-starts." Note to self: read up on anti-trust.

jasmer 3y ago

The Bilderbergers you don't need to worry about but the WEF are trying to establish a New World Order right out in the open. It's fairly open in that there is coverage, and 'just having a meeting' isn't directly nefarious, but it's fundamentally anti-democratic. Elitism is a serious problem and it's not a traditional classicist issue it doesn't matter how these people were born and raised, it's the detachment from material reality that happens when they get into their roles and get starry eyed utopianist. The Canadian government sends a lot of people there and current leadership were all 'anointed' as 'young leaders' from the WEF, while the bureaucracy itself is a dysfunctional mess. We need a 'How Governments Can Stop Being Corrupt And Actually Do Productive Stuff Forum' instead of the WEF which is 'champagne globalism' where they talk about whatever was in Atlantic, and go to McKinsey hosted parties that are extremely lame. In other words, just like a startup, it's 'execution' and that thought doesn't even cross their minds. WEF is like 'geopolitical gossip fireside chillout'.

pkphilip 3y ago

Yes, it is crazy to think that so many people believe that the elites have our best interest at heart.. that they will never connive for their own narrow self-interest... that they are meeting in secret for years purely out of the goodness of their hearts. The fact that the corporate media pushes this narrative ought to tell us something.

JohnFen 3y ago

> Am I crazy for thinking we have few reasons to trust these "elites" or even believe what they say? Not at all. We have an extensive history showing that they can't be trusted or believed without evidence. But, in my opinion, the right response isn't to disbelieve everything they say, either. It's to note they said it (because what they say does give clues as to what they're planning to do) but not to allow their statements alone to carry much weight in terms of determining truth.

skybrian 3y ago

I don’t see how “gaslighting” applies. The quote doesn’t say anything, so it’s not a lie. It says they got together to talk, which is what a meeting is for. Nothing about any agenda is disclosed. They are having a meeting because they want to have a meeting. Unless you know something the rest of us don’t.

JohnFen 3y ago
"Gaslighting" has become a fashionable thing to say, but lately, I've rarely heard it used to refer to actual gaslighting. I think that a lot of people don't actually know what it means. I saw a YouTuber make a great joke about that that demonstrates actual gaslighting. "You told me that you love to be gaslit, remember?"

aeternum 3y ago

It's just word choice being used to influence reader perception. For example, simple "change" or even welcoming progressive ideas is perceived by other groups to be advocating for a new world order. Notice how you can also call them capitalist elites, oligarchs, or successful business leaders depending on the sentiment you wish to portray.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

Even with your own apparent line of reasoning, this would be absurd. Why on Earth would the world "elites" desire to establish a "new world order", given that the current "world order" seems to be working just great for them. I'm so sick of conspiracy theories that aren't even self-consistent, even if you do take at face value the cartoon characterization of the bad guys.

FireBeyond 3y ago
> Why on Earth would the world "elites" desire to establish a "new world order", given that the current "world order" seems to be working just great for them. I'd disagree with this, from the sense of - one thing that has proven almost universally consistent throughout all human history: there is no such thing as too much power, or too much wealth. People, when given these things, crave more. It's not even necessarily a _character_ failing - it's the same feedback loops to various receptors in our brain.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Again, even taking your opinion regarding "there is no such thing as too much power, or too much wealth" 100% at face value (which I also happen to pretty much agree with): The richest segments of global society have grown much richer and more powerful for nearly half a century. If your goal is to grow your wealth and power pretty much at all costs, again, the "current world order" is working great for the elites - why would they risk f'ing that up?
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    Well, as you say, the current world order is working great for them. So perhaps the "new world order" isn't "throw it all away and rebuild from scratch", but a careful polishing and refining of all the things that are currently working well for the elite. A min-max'ing, so to speak.

jstarfish 3y ago

You're reading it wrong. Try re-reading it literally: > the discrete [sic] nature of it is to allow for greater freedom of discussion. Meeting in secret greatly increases freedom of discussion for the participants involved. They can talk about literally anything without the media sniffing around. This has nothing to do with freedom for you and I, nor is that implied anywhere. Their statement is actually refreshingly honest; these people don't bother with gaslighting anymore, they outright tell you they're fucking you because nobody can do anything about it anyway.

tastyfreeze 3y ago

The media is owned by people that participate in Davos. Can't expect anything other than cover from a mouthpiece. Of course you shouldn't believe them. Nobody has more interest in your wellbeing than yourself. People saying how the plebs should live have an agenda. WEF states their goals on their website without actually saying how they will be achieved. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/now-is-the-time-for-a-great-reset/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/now-is-the-time-for-a...