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Just yesterday I was trying to sign up with Verizon for my new address. Fiber is not available in my building, so they offer "5G Home Internet" for $60-$80/mo,

Just yesterday I was trying to sign up with Verizon for my new address. Fiber is not available in my building, so they offer "5G Home Internet" for $60-$80/mo, which is crazy expensive for what it is. I asked whether there were ADSL lines available, since these were recently available for as cheap as $15/mo. It seems this is no longer the case. Maybe there's a market here? EDIT: I am in the US, and I've just realized this is a UK-oriented article. Nevertheless, the point might still stand.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
T-Mobile 5G Home Internet is $50/month. They’re using spare 5G capacity because they overbuilt their network. You’ll see congestion during peak usage times, but it’s fine otherwise.
- omginternets 3y ago
  >You’ll see congestion during peak usage times Yeah, that's kind of the issue. That, and latency.
  - syntaxing 3y ago
    Not OP, but I used tmobile ISP for over two years during the whole Covid era. Worked pretty good for what it is, managed to get about 200 Mbps down and 20 up. I hit 500 Mbps but moved away from that area at one point. I only just switched to fiber recently because a 1G fiber line was installed and only cost $60 a month.
    - omginternets 3y ago
      >Worked pretty good for what it is, Sure. The "for what it is" is doing a lot of heavy lifting, though. See also: it's rather expensive for what it is.
      - ianlevesque 3y ago
        What? I feel like people coast on experiences from 5-10 years ago. This isn't a 3G hotspot. Ping time right now is 53ms and I'm getting 200/20 for $50, all included, no additional fees. This is outside their actual ideal service area too. I'd love symmetric fiber for $50, but 'for what it is' isn't doing much lifting at all.
        larksimian 3y ago
        Eh, it's relative. You can get that for like 10 euros a month in Romania and they throw in a mobile phone and some cable channels to boot I think.
        hnav 3y ago
        yeah but you can haphazardly hang fiber off of telephone poles in Romania
      - syntaxing 3y ago
        Hmm not sure if I totally agree. Like sure, it’s a no brainer for my situation since I get 1G fiber for $60. But I have a bunch of friends and family paying $50 for Comcast for 200/10 copper lines.
- pitaj 3y ago
  How is the latency for these 5G home internet services?
  - syntaxing 3y ago
    Over 100ms most of the time, it worked fine for WFH when I had meetings. Terrible if you want to game.
    - exact_string 3y ago
      This is interesting since I remember having much lower latency for 3G, perhaps < 50 ms, about 10 years ago. :) At that time, some of my friends were even using the home 3G to play games.
    - mdasen 3y ago
      That's rare. T-Mobile averages 53ms latency according to Ookla/Speedtest.net for multi-server latency. For wired connections, Xfinity averages 24ms, Cox 25ms, and Spectrum 31ms. So wireless does add an additional ~25ms of latency compared to wired, but 100ms is out of the ordinary.
      - no_wizard 3y ago
        Try the fast.com or speed.cloudflare.com instead. Ookla is pretty easy to game by the ISPs
      - syntaxing 3y ago
        T-mobile != T-Mobile ISP. For the better or worse, anything going through the ISP plan is bottom of the barrel. You can look through all the post on the T-Mobile ISP subreddit. Even those with 500 Mbps speed are close to 100 ms of latency.
  - swimorsinka 3y ago
    Some of the people on my team had to switch back to Comcast after trying it for a few months. Video calls were laggy and would drop packets constantly. This was in Colorado fwiw.
rcme 3y ago
ADSL is too slow for most modern internet usage.
- omginternets 3y ago
  I emphatically disagree. If you live in a city, it's quite sufficient for IPTV, a bit of youtube, spotify, etc.
  - bradfa 3y ago
    YouTube, Netflix, music streaming, most video conferencing, and general web browsing all work fine on a 1.5Mb/s link in my experience. It's certainly not fast, but it's fast enough to do the basics.
    - lucb1e 3y ago
      Most things you mention are a matter of buffering and waiting it out, so those will work in a 'basic' fashion as you say. But video conferencing? Even in a 1:1 call, where you need to download only one audio and video stream, if you don't live alone (most people don't), I would be very impressed if you got a router that can recognise and prioritise the call traffic to the point where that works smoothly.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - bradfa 3y ago
        I used to have 768kbps down / 128kbps up cable internet. There was some buffering on Netflix at the start of a stream but it was fine. When we got upgraded to 1.5Mbps down / 256kbps up there was basically no buffering at the start of Netflix or YouTube streams and FaceTime worked fine.
  - rcme 3y ago
    Sure, you might get away with consuming a single video stream. But you shouldn't be surprised that there is very little demand for this. A single HD video stream (1080p) can require 8 mbps. Trying to consume multiple of these, especially with a realtime protocol like WebRTC, is impossible on an ADSL connection.
andy_ppp 3y ago
It’s still always interesting to see how vested interests and rent seeking seems to be a big part of US business culture. I wonder if the US would be more or less successful without these uncompetitive business practices.
- asdfman123 3y ago
  > vested interests and rent seeking seems to be a big part of US business culture This is also true about nearly every other country that exists or has existed throughout history. US is notable for being, on average, much more competitive and less corrupt. (But it's heading in the wrong direction, and that's only on average. Many countries have caught up, and a few others have surpassed it.
  - andy_ppp 3y ago
    This sounds like American exceptionalism - I'm not sure the prison industry or the water industry being more competitive is good or that they are less corrupt than the state running them. Corruption of markets happens because of no regulation or because of too much regulation. I personally think where to draw this line is an art and very difficult in an extremely polarised country like the US.
    - asdfman123 3y ago
      No, it's not. You have to be careful about American exceptionalism, but America really did/still does lead the world in a lot of things. It's still pretty good on the corruption index, although getting worse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index.
      - andy_ppp 3y ago
        I don’t think capturing broadband markets and preventing other players entering would count on that scale as corruption although the sums of money involved are not doubt astonishing. You’re talking about something different to the context we were in as far as I can tell.
pivo 3y ago
I tried Verizon 5G for several months. It could be very fast (600Mbps down, maybe 100Mbps up) but it wasn't very reliable. We had some days where it just didn't work (maybe two days out of six months.) It's $50/mo (IIRC) if you have mobile phone service with them. For me, the worst part was that they want you to mount their 5G device on your window, and I'm in the city and have only a few windows. It's not an ugly device really, but I don't want to glue a big device to my living room window.
mdasen 3y ago
I'm surprised they're quoting you $60-80/mo. Verizon's 5G home internet is $50/mo (or $25/mo bundled with one of their premium wireless plans or $40/mo bundled with Visible's $35/mo Visible+ wireless plan). Why would you want DSL? In my area, Verizon's DSL is 3.1Mbps which really isn't good for much and costs $75/mo ($40 for the DSL and $35 for the required home phone service with it). You also have to pay $3.50/mo for the router or buy it for $100. Verizon stopped expanding Fiber for the most part which is a shame. AT&T is doubling its fiber deployment in their markets. Do you have a cable provider that's your broadband provider? Verizon is generally only offering 5G Home Internet in areas where there are other broadband options so it seems curious that you'd be interested in DSL over a cable connection offering 100x the speed.
- omginternets 3y ago
  >$25/mo bundled with one of their premium wireless plans I mean, this contributes to my point: it's only "cheap" if you buy into their plan and also upgrade your phone. For a variety of reasons, this isn't a good fit for me, and I'm beginning to suspect there might be a small-but-respectable market of others who resemble me.
timerol 3y ago
Note that if you use Verizon for your cell phone and have a 5G plan, the price halves. Setting up AutoPay lowers it further, down to $25 best case. (I'm currently paying $35 for 5G Home Plus.)
abawany 3y ago
Verizon 5G Home Internet is also typically $50/mo - were you ordering through the building, which might be taking a cut?
- omginternets 3y ago
  Nope! This is straight through Verizon's main website.
  - abawany 3y ago
    I just double checked as a new customer - you're right that it's 60 usd/m but it goes down to 50/m if you autopay using a debit card (strange Verizon artifact - but annoying). Edit: I've been a customer for a year and while the early months were rough wrt. reliability (1), it is now pretty rock solid in my area and I typically get close to 300mb/s though I don't game so I'm not sure how it is with that. 1: so rough that I wrote a script that power cycled the modem every time it disconnected, since that was faster than waiting for it to recover. I haven't used that scheme for months now though since it was no longer necessary.
mym1990 3y ago
I just got Verizon home internet for 25$ a month, and they offer 200$ back if you stay on the service for 6 months(I am also on their phone service so that may be why the price is cheaper?).
schwoll 3y ago
Ask them for a landline phone. They'll either have to run new copper or choose to install fiber. Once they run copper then get a DSL company to run through that. Generally they won't want to run copper and don't want competition so they'll go ahead and run fiber. In either case I believe the law they're constrained by is local ordinances giving them a region based monopoly for traditional landline access in exchange for ensuring everyone has a phone. If you force the issue they'll run SOMETHING to your door. And through that something you'll have more options.
- omginternets 3y ago
  This sounds like great advice! I'll do this first thing tomorrow. Thank you!
  - schwoll 3y ago
    No guarantees bc it entirely relies on your local ordinances, but it did work for me when the company was giving me the runaround about internet. I just asked for a landline phone and they had fiber installed within 2 weeks.
- CapstanRoller 3y ago
  Won't they funnel you into a VoIP "landline" instead? That's what Comcast does around here. I think they ripped out the copper long ago.
  - jeremyjh 3y ago
    They would run fiber to do that though. Hence GP's point that they will run SOMETHING.
    - schwoll 3y ago
      Correct. This is all based on my previous knowledge of my local monopoly agreements that someone told me about years ago. They refused for months to install internet until I asked people in my vicinity if anyone had asked for a phone line. Nobody had. So I did and instead of copper they ran fiber within 2 weeks. I can only infer what happened but they really didn't want me to be without a regular phone line so I determined that was their legal weakness. The only way companies that large move like that is if something threatens their status with the local government. A call from a resident saying the company wouldn't install a phone line is a big no-no in my understanding.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

T-Mobile 5G Home Internet is $50/month. They’re using spare 5G capacity because they overbuilt their network. You’ll see congestion during peak usage times, but it’s fine otherwise.

omginternets 3y ago
>You’ll see congestion during peak usage times Yeah, that's kind of the issue. That, and latency.
- syntaxing 3y ago
  Not OP, but I used tmobile ISP for over two years during the whole Covid era. Worked pretty good for what it is, managed to get about 200 Mbps down and 20 up. I hit 500 Mbps but moved away from that area at one point. I only just switched to fiber recently because a 1G fiber line was installed and only cost $60 a month.
  - omginternets 3y ago
    >Worked pretty good for what it is, Sure. The "for what it is" is doing a lot of heavy lifting, though. See also: it's rather expensive for what it is.
    - ianlevesque 3y ago
      What? I feel like people coast on experiences from 5-10 years ago. This isn't a 3G hotspot. Ping time right now is 53ms and I'm getting 200/20 for $50, all included, no additional fees. This is outside their actual ideal service area too. I'd love symmetric fiber for $50, but 'for what it is' isn't doing much lifting at all.
      - larksimian 3y ago
        Eh, it's relative. You can get that for like 10 euros a month in Romania and they throw in a mobile phone and some cable channels to boot I think.
        hnav 3y ago
        yeah but you can haphazardly hang fiber off of telephone poles in Romania
    - syntaxing 3y ago
      Hmm not sure if I totally agree. Like sure, it’s a no brainer for my situation since I get 1G fiber for $60. But I have a bunch of friends and family paying $50 for Comcast for 200/10 copper lines.
pitaj 3y ago
How is the latency for these 5G home internet services?
- syntaxing 3y ago
  Over 100ms most of the time, it worked fine for WFH when I had meetings. Terrible if you want to game.
  - exact_string 3y ago
    This is interesting since I remember having much lower latency for 3G, perhaps < 50 ms, about 10 years ago. :) At that time, some of my friends were even using the home 3G to play games.
  - mdasen 3y ago
    That's rare. T-Mobile averages 53ms latency according to Ookla/Speedtest.net for multi-server latency. For wired connections, Xfinity averages 24ms, Cox 25ms, and Spectrum 31ms. So wireless does add an additional ~25ms of latency compared to wired, but 100ms is out of the ordinary.
    - no_wizard 3y ago
      Try the fast.com or speed.cloudflare.com instead. Ookla is pretty easy to game by the ISPs
    - syntaxing 3y ago
      T-mobile != T-Mobile ISP. For the better or worse, anything going through the ISP plan is bottom of the barrel. You can look through all the post on the T-Mobile ISP subreddit. Even those with 500 Mbps speed are close to 100 ms of latency.
- swimorsinka 3y ago
  Some of the people on my team had to switch back to Comcast after trying it for a few months. Video calls were laggy and would drop packets constantly. This was in Colorado fwiw.

rcme 3y ago

ADSL is too slow for most modern internet usage.

omginternets 3y ago
I emphatically disagree. If you live in a city, it's quite sufficient for IPTV, a bit of youtube, spotify, etc.
- bradfa 3y ago
  YouTube, Netflix, music streaming, most video conferencing, and general web browsing all work fine on a 1.5Mb/s link in my experience. It's certainly not fast, but it's fast enough to do the basics.
  - lucb1e 3y ago
    Most things you mention are a matter of buffering and waiting it out, so those will work in a 'basic' fashion as you say. But video conferencing? Even in a 1:1 call, where you need to download only one audio and video stream, if you don't live alone (most people don't), I would be very impressed if you got a router that can recognise and prioritise the call traffic to the point where that works smoothly.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - bradfa 3y ago
      I used to have 768kbps down / 128kbps up cable internet. There was some buffering on Netflix at the start of a stream but it was fine. When we got upgraded to 1.5Mbps down / 256kbps up there was basically no buffering at the start of Netflix or YouTube streams and FaceTime worked fine.
- rcme 3y ago
  Sure, you might get away with consuming a single video stream. But you shouldn't be surprised that there is very little demand for this. A single HD video stream (1080p) can require 8 mbps. Trying to consume multiple of these, especially with a realtime protocol like WebRTC, is impossible on an ADSL connection.

andy_ppp 3y ago

It’s still always interesting to see how vested interests and rent seeking seems to be a big part of US business culture. I wonder if the US would be more or less successful without these uncompetitive business practices.

asdfman123 3y ago
> vested interests and rent seeking seems to be a big part of US business culture This is also true about nearly every other country that exists or has existed throughout history. US is notable for being, on average, much more competitive and less corrupt. (But it's heading in the wrong direction, and that's only on average. Many countries have caught up, and a few others have surpassed it.
- andy_ppp 3y ago
  This sounds like American exceptionalism - I'm not sure the prison industry or the water industry being more competitive is good or that they are less corrupt than the state running them. Corruption of markets happens because of no regulation or because of too much regulation. I personally think where to draw this line is an art and very difficult in an extremely polarised country like the US.
  - asdfman123 3y ago
    No, it's not. You have to be careful about American exceptionalism, but America really did/still does lead the world in a lot of things. It's still pretty good on the corruption index, although getting worse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index.
    - andy_ppp 3y ago
      I don’t think capturing broadband markets and preventing other players entering would count on that scale as corruption although the sums of money involved are not doubt astonishing. You’re talking about something different to the context we were in as far as I can tell.

pivo 3y ago

I tried Verizon 5G for several months. It could be very fast (600Mbps down, maybe 100Mbps up) but it wasn't very reliable. We had some days where it just didn't work (maybe two days out of six months.) It's $50/mo (IIRC) if you have mobile phone service with them. For me, the worst part was that they want you to mount their 5G device on your window, and I'm in the city and have only a few windows. It's not an ugly device really, but I don't want to glue a big device to my living room window.

mdasen 3y ago

I'm surprised they're quoting you $60-80/mo. Verizon's 5G home internet is $50/mo (or $25/mo bundled with one of their premium wireless plans or $40/mo bundled with Visible's $35/mo Visible+ wireless plan). Why would you want DSL? In my area, Verizon's DSL is 3.1Mbps which really isn't good for much and costs $75/mo ($40 for the DSL and $35 for the required home phone service with it). You also have to pay $3.50/mo for the router or buy it for $100. Verizon stopped expanding Fiber for the most part which is a shame. AT&T is doubling its fiber deployment in their markets. Do you have a cable provider that's your broadband provider? Verizon is generally only offering 5G Home Internet in areas where there are other broadband options so it seems curious that you'd be interested in DSL over a cable connection offering 100x the speed.

omginternets 3y ago
>$25/mo bundled with one of their premium wireless plans I mean, this contributes to my point: it's only "cheap" if you buy into their plan and also upgrade your phone. For a variety of reasons, this isn't a good fit for me, and I'm beginning to suspect there might be a small-but-respectable market of others who resemble me.

timerol 3y ago

Note that if you use Verizon for your cell phone and have a 5G plan, the price halves. Setting up AutoPay lowers it further, down to $25 best case. (I'm currently paying $35 for 5G Home Plus.)

abawany 3y ago

Verizon 5G Home Internet is also typically $50/mo - were you ordering through the building, which might be taking a cut?

omginternets 3y ago
Nope! This is straight through Verizon's main website.
- abawany 3y ago
  I just double checked as a new customer - you're right that it's 60 usd/m but it goes down to 50/m if you autopay using a debit card (strange Verizon artifact - but annoying). Edit: I've been a customer for a year and while the early months were rough wrt. reliability (1), it is now pretty rock solid in my area and I typically get close to 300mb/s though I don't game so I'm not sure how it is with that. 1: so rough that I wrote a script that power cycled the modem every time it disconnected, since that was faster than waiting for it to recover. I haven't used that scheme for months now though since it was no longer necessary.

mym1990 3y ago

I just got Verizon home internet for 25$ a month, and they offer 200$ back if you stay on the service for 6 months(I am also on their phone service so that may be why the price is cheaper?).

schwoll 3y ago

Ask them for a landline phone. They'll either have to run new copper or choose to install fiber. Once they run copper then get a DSL company to run through that. Generally they won't want to run copper and don't want competition so they'll go ahead and run fiber. In either case I believe the law they're constrained by is local ordinances giving them a region based monopoly for traditional landline access in exchange for ensuring everyone has a phone. If you force the issue they'll run SOMETHING to your door. And through that something you'll have more options.

omginternets 3y ago
This sounds like great advice! I'll do this first thing tomorrow. Thank you!
- schwoll 3y ago
  No guarantees bc it entirely relies on your local ordinances, but it did work for me when the company was giving me the runaround about internet. I just asked for a landline phone and they had fiber installed within 2 weeks.
CapstanRoller 3y ago
Won't they funnel you into a VoIP "landline" instead? That's what Comcast does around here. I think they ripped out the copper long ago.
- jeremyjh 3y ago
  They would run fiber to do that though. Hence GP's point that they will run SOMETHING.
  - schwoll 3y ago
    Correct. This is all based on my previous knowledge of my local monopoly agreements that someone told me about years ago. They refused for months to install internet until I asked people in my vicinity if anyone had asked for a phone line. Nobody had. So I did and instead of copper they ran fiber within 2 weeks. I can only infer what happened but they really didn't want me to be without a regular phone line so I determined that was their legal weakness. The only way companies that large move like that is if something threatens their status with the local government. A call from a resident saying the company wouldn't install a phone line is a big no-no in my understanding.