5 ms·

What is this “no other options” bullshit? They could just not attack Ukraine and that’s it. Nobody would attack Russia.

by murkt 3y ago

londons_explore 3y ago
Have you visited any countries bordering Russia - Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan? If you do, you see quite odd things... You see children's playgrounds that have a big sign saying 'Proudly sponsored by the USA development fund", or "This bus route is made possible by the EU funding.". Why would the USA be using US taxpayer money to build children's playgrounds in Azerbaijan? It's all about a long term battle for hearts and minds... Be the 'good guys' to a 5 year old child now, and in 30 years that child is a voter and you can have influence over the whole country. Pretty smart moves... But I can see how Russia isn't happy about it.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  "We invaded with tanks because the other guy funded a playground" is a hell of a take.
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ericmay 3y ago
      I agree. Once Putin had Trump there in power he sensed that the country was weak and decided to take action thinking that the Americans were too preoccupied with trying to be some semblance of government and international relations back to order once Biden won the election. Problem was that the Biden admin actually has experience and capabilities, and the Ukrainians decided to fight for their country and now Russia is finding out that they made a pretty poor move based on faulty assumptions. > We have no leg to stand on 1) At some point we get our legs to stand on back - supporting Ukraine actually has gone a long way in the eyes of Europe and allies in the Pacific. 2) Not having a leg to stand on doesn't matter because we can do wrong things and then also criticize others when they do wrong things. 3) EU member states and other nations have legs to stand on and they also support the American position on Ukraine.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - nicoburns 3y ago
      It remains the case that Russia didn't have to invade Ukraine and the US didn't have to invade Afghanistan. Both wars are morally reprehensible.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        Now do Yemen, Iraq (first and second time), Pakistan, Libya and Syria. Then do Vietnam, then consider the support and armament of Israel and finish up with decades of CIA meddling and installation of brutal dictatorships all around the globe.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        Now do Ukraine. What about US actions elsewhere makes Russia's invasion moral?
        willcipriano 3y ago
        We have politicians here that voted in favor of those war crimes, demanding that Russians are punished for theirs. Let's start at home if war crimes are something we care about if not we can shut our hypocrite mouths.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        "the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: 'theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron'" - https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312 https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312
        willcipriano 3y ago
        Worlds most obese man calls women fat.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
    - School-Cotton 3y ago
      Nobody was even talking about America. We are talking about Russia invading Ukraine. That can still be bad even if America’s actions are also bad.
- murkt 3y ago
  I live in Ukraine and never have seen a US-funded playground. As a father of two, I’m a frequent visitor of playgrounds. Also have never seen a “funded by EU” sign. I’m sure there are some cases with EU-funding, as I’ve read about a couple of cases in the news, but it’s not widespread at all. I’ve only seen such signs in EU proper (e.g. Lithuania). The whole premise “someone funded a playground in my neighbor’s backyard, I have no other options. Bomb them NOW!” is beyond ridiculous. They could also fund our playgrounds, if it’s as effective, as you claim. In any case that would be muuuuuch cheaper than starting a war with hundreds of thousands dying, sanctions and all that.
- School-Cotton 3y ago
  You’re probably right that the west meddles in Ukrainian politics, attempting to sway them towards being pro-west instead of pro-Russia. I’m missing the explanation for how this justifies an extremely destructive invasion and war.

What is this “no other options” bullshit? They could just not attack Ukraine and that’s it. Nobody would attack Russia.

by murkt 3y ago

What is this “no other options” bullshit? They could just not attack Ukraine and that’s it. Nobody would attack Russia.

Have you visited any countries bordering Russia - Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan? If you do, you see quite odd things... You see children's playgrounds that have a big sign saying 'Proudly sponsored by the USA development fund", or "This bus route is made possible by the EU funding.". Why would the USA be using US taxpayer money to build children's playgrounds in Azerbaijan? It's all about a long term battle for hearts and minds... Be the 'good guys' to a 5 year old child now, and in 30 years that child is a voter and you can have influence over the whole country. Pretty smart moves... But I can see how Russia isn't happy about it.

ceejayoz 3y ago
"We invaded with tanks because the other guy funded a playground" is a hell of a take.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ericmay 3y ago
    I agree. Once Putin had Trump there in power he sensed that the country was weak and decided to take action thinking that the Americans were too preoccupied with trying to be some semblance of government and international relations back to order once Biden won the election. Problem was that the Biden admin actually has experience and capabilities, and the Ukrainians decided to fight for their country and now Russia is finding out that they made a pretty poor move based on faulty assumptions. > We have no leg to stand on 1) At some point we get our legs to stand on back - supporting Ukraine actually has gone a long way in the eyes of Europe and allies in the Pacific. 2) Not having a leg to stand on doesn't matter because we can do wrong things and then also criticize others when they do wrong things. 3) EU member states and other nations have legs to stand on and they also support the American position on Ukraine.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - nicoburns 3y ago
    It remains the case that Russia didn't have to invade Ukraine and the US didn't have to invade Afghanistan. Both wars are morally reprehensible.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      Now do Yemen, Iraq (first and second time), Pakistan, Libya and Syria. Then do Vietnam, then consider the support and armament of Israel and finish up with decades of CIA meddling and installation of brutal dictatorships all around the globe.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        Now do Ukraine. What about US actions elsewhere makes Russia's invasion moral?
        willcipriano 3y ago
        We have politicians here that voted in favor of those war crimes, demanding that Russians are punished for theirs. Let's start at home if war crimes are something we care about if not we can shut our hypocrite mouths.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        "the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: 'theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron'" - https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312 https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312
        willcipriano 3y ago
        Worlds most obese man calls women fat.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
  - School-Cotton 3y ago
    Nobody was even talking about America. We are talking about Russia invading Ukraine. That can still be bad even if America’s actions are also bad.
murkt 3y ago
I live in Ukraine and never have seen a US-funded playground. As a father of two, I’m a frequent visitor of playgrounds. Also have never seen a “funded by EU” sign. I’m sure there are some cases with EU-funding, as I’ve read about a couple of cases in the news, but it’s not widespread at all. I’ve only seen such signs in EU proper (e.g. Lithuania). The whole premise “someone funded a playground in my neighbor’s backyard, I have no other options. Bomb them NOW!” is beyond ridiculous. They could also fund our playgrounds, if it’s as effective, as you claim. In any case that would be muuuuuch cheaper than starting a war with hundreds of thousands dying, sanctions and all that.
School-Cotton 3y ago
You’re probably right that the west meddles in Ukrainian politics, attempting to sway them towards being pro-west instead of pro-Russia. I’m missing the explanation for how this justifies an extremely destructive invasion and war.