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I still don't understand how Russia (the country where I was born) would possibly want and invade Ukraine... But it did.

SXX 3y ago
No idea why you being downvoted. I as owner of Russian passport even been to Kiev in December 2021 and talked with a lot of friends and just normal people there on gamedev conference. There been a lot of tension for 8 years since 2014 and even more during 2021. Yet no matter political views no one in either Russia or Ukraine seriously considered full scale war possible. Conclusion: there no way to know what is inside a head of aging autocrat.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  > no matter political views no one in either Russia or Ukraine seriously considered full scale war possible. Plenty of experts have been calling it for a decade now... EU/US influence has been slowly creeping east for 30 years. Russia had no other options really - as soon as a pro-west leader was elected to Ukraine, war was inevitable. And the same will happen in Belarus when the leadership changes there too.
  - murkt 3y ago
    What is this “no other options” bullshit? They could just not attack Ukraine and that’s it. Nobody would attack Russia.
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      Have you visited any countries bordering Russia - Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan? If you do, you see quite odd things... You see children's playgrounds that have a big sign saying 'Proudly sponsored by the USA development fund", or "This bus route is made possible by the EU funding.". Why would the USA be using US taxpayer money to build children's playgrounds in Azerbaijan? It's all about a long term battle for hearts and minds... Be the 'good guys' to a 5 year old child now, and in 30 years that child is a voter and you can have influence over the whole country. Pretty smart moves... But I can see how Russia isn't happy about it.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        "We invaded with tanks because the other guy funded a playground" is a hell of a take.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        [flagged]
        ericmay 3y ago
        I agree. Once Putin had Trump there in power he sensed that the country was weak and decided to take action thinking that the Americans were too preoccupied with trying to be some semblance of government and international relations back to order once Biden won the election. Problem was that the Biden admin actually has experience and capabilities, and the Ukrainians decided to fight for their country and now Russia is finding out that they made a pretty poor move based on faulty assumptions. > We have no leg to stand on 1) At some point we get our legs to stand on back - supporting Ukraine actually has gone a long way in the eyes of Europe and allies in the Pacific. 2) Not having a leg to stand on doesn't matter because we can do wrong things and then also criticize others when they do wrong things. 3) EU member states and other nations have legs to stand on and they also support the American position on Ukraine.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        nicoburns 3y ago
        It remains the case that Russia didn't have to invade Ukraine and the US didn't have to invade Afghanistan. Both wars are morally reprehensible.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        Now do Yemen, Iraq (first and second time), Pakistan, Libya and Syria. Then do Vietnam, then consider the support and armament of Israel and finish up with decades of CIA meddling and installation of brutal dictatorships all around the globe.
  - hkpack 3y ago
    It was not inevitable, it was a decision, a choice made by specific people. They do everything in their power to make you believe that is was inevitable to divert the blame. Same with Taiwan. It is a choice for China to make - to invade or not.
  - stickyricky 3y ago
    ?? Has the West moved east or did Eastern Europe run to the West out of fear of their neighbor? But yes. US influence snuck up on Russia and tricked those countries into being scared of it. Its all so clear now...
Flatcircle 3y ago
That’s the thing, taking Ukraine gives Russia several advantages, Ukraine produces a lot of the agriculture in that region, so taking that gives them another large bargaining chip in their sphere. Not to mention, it’s a large landmass that offers a huge buffer between the NATO countries and Russia. And it’s got another 40 or 50 million people for Russia, which has a population problem. And it’s got iron & Steel exports… Taiwan has TSMC. And I suspect the US has a bunch of fueled up C-17’s ready to take all the important infrastructure to the US and plans in place to effectively destroy the rest at a moments notice.
- coffeebeqn 3y ago
  Why are you looking at China though such different lense? Taiwan is exactly like Crimea or Cuba strategically speaking. Please don’t invade any countries even if they’re smaller and inconvenient to your stories.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  > And it’s got another 40 or 50 million people for Russia, which has a population problem. Taking 40M people with the same demographic problems gives you a bigger problem - not a solution...
  - SXX 3y ago
    Nice source: https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/ukraine/2020/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/ukraine/2020/ In 10 years demographic in both countries will be as bad as in Japan.
  - Flatcircle 3y ago
    I agree I don't think it'd help Putin or anything, I'm just saying that if they took Ukraine, he'd add another 42 million people to the 133 million he already rules over. That's about a third more people to rule over, and he's not concerned about the later years of a peasant Russian. I assume he's concerned with more able bodied young men, which, ironically is a cohort he lacks while he tries to capture the country he's trying to obtain to help with that problem.
tinus_hn 3y ago
A number of reasons including * because they could (or so they thought) * because there’s a lot of important resources in the ground * because they want to lay down the border between NATO and Russia and preferably not at the border of Russia but on someone else’s turf
jasmer 3y ago
It's really odd to fathom who someone would not understand why Xi wants to take Taiwan, and 'chips' has nothing to do with it. People need to take a much, much broader mindset. China views Taiwan as part of China, and that's that. I personally don't, and the Taiwanese population ought to chose what they want without material interference, and 'we' should respect that by recognizing their sovereignty and statehood if that's what they want, much like at this point we ought to be recognizing Palestine as a state, if that's what they want. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is pure classical Imperialism, Ukraine is a 'sub Russian vassal' and Russian Imperialism is part of the Russian identity - it was 'secularized' during the time of USSR, now it's just old school. If you look at geopolitics from the 19th century it's all very clear. That said, it is odd Apple would do this in Taiwan, and, it's a much bigger jump than people think. This is a bold move and will reshape what Apple is, and maybe what a true international megacorp of the future looks like. It could also make them more fragile and if they start to falter, it could really fall apart. You need a lot to work well for this to be pulled off.

SXX 3y ago

No idea why you being downvoted. I as owner of Russian passport even been to Kiev in December 2021 and talked with a lot of friends and just normal people there on gamedev conference. There been a lot of tension for 8 years since 2014 and even more during 2021. Yet no matter political views no one in either Russia or Ukraine seriously considered full scale war possible. Conclusion: there no way to know what is inside a head of aging autocrat.

londons_explore 3y ago
> no matter political views no one in either Russia or Ukraine seriously considered full scale war possible. Plenty of experts have been calling it for a decade now... EU/US influence has been slowly creeping east for 30 years. Russia had no other options really - as soon as a pro-west leader was elected to Ukraine, war was inevitable. And the same will happen in Belarus when the leadership changes there too.
- murkt 3y ago
  What is this “no other options” bullshit? They could just not attack Ukraine and that’s it. Nobody would attack Russia.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Have you visited any countries bordering Russia - Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan? If you do, you see quite odd things... You see children's playgrounds that have a big sign saying 'Proudly sponsored by the USA development fund", or "This bus route is made possible by the EU funding.". Why would the USA be using US taxpayer money to build children's playgrounds in Azerbaijan? It's all about a long term battle for hearts and minds... Be the 'good guys' to a 5 year old child now, and in 30 years that child is a voter and you can have influence over the whole country. Pretty smart moves... But I can see how Russia isn't happy about it.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      "We invaded with tanks because the other guy funded a playground" is a hell of a take.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        [flagged]
        ericmay 3y ago
        I agree. Once Putin had Trump there in power he sensed that the country was weak and decided to take action thinking that the Americans were too preoccupied with trying to be some semblance of government and international relations back to order once Biden won the election. Problem was that the Biden admin actually has experience and capabilities, and the Ukrainians decided to fight for their country and now Russia is finding out that they made a pretty poor move based on faulty assumptions. > We have no leg to stand on 1) At some point we get our legs to stand on back - supporting Ukraine actually has gone a long way in the eyes of Europe and allies in the Pacific. 2) Not having a leg to stand on doesn't matter because we can do wrong things and then also criticize others when they do wrong things. 3) EU member states and other nations have legs to stand on and they also support the American position on Ukraine.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        nicoburns 3y ago
        It remains the case that Russia didn't have to invade Ukraine and the US didn't have to invade Afghanistan. Both wars are morally reprehensible.
        willcipriano 3y ago
        Now do Yemen, Iraq (first and second time), Pakistan, Libya and Syria. Then do Vietnam, then consider the support and armament of Israel and finish up with decades of CIA meddling and installation of brutal dictatorships all around the globe.
- hkpack 3y ago
  It was not inevitable, it was a decision, a choice made by specific people. They do everything in their power to make you believe that is was inevitable to divert the blame. Same with Taiwan. It is a choice for China to make - to invade or not.
- stickyricky 3y ago
  ?? Has the West moved east or did Eastern Europe run to the West out of fear of their neighbor? But yes. US influence snuck up on Russia and tricked those countries into being scared of it. Its all so clear now...

Flatcircle 3y ago

That’s the thing, taking Ukraine gives Russia several advantages, Ukraine produces a lot of the agriculture in that region, so taking that gives them another large bargaining chip in their sphere. Not to mention, it’s a large landmass that offers a huge buffer between the NATO countries and Russia. And it’s got another 40 or 50 million people for Russia, which has a population problem. And it’s got iron & Steel exports… Taiwan has TSMC. And I suspect the US has a bunch of fueled up C-17’s ready to take all the important infrastructure to the US and plans in place to effectively destroy the rest at a moments notice.

coffeebeqn 3y ago
Why are you looking at China though such different lense? Taiwan is exactly like Crimea or Cuba strategically speaking. Please don’t invade any countries even if they’re smaller and inconvenient to your stories.
onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
> And it’s got another 40 or 50 million people for Russia, which has a population problem. Taking 40M people with the same demographic problems gives you a bigger problem - not a solution...
- SXX 3y ago
  Nice source: https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/ukraine/2020/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/ukraine/2020/ In 10 years demographic in both countries will be as bad as in Japan.
- Flatcircle 3y ago
  I agree I don't think it'd help Putin or anything, I'm just saying that if they took Ukraine, he'd add another 42 million people to the 133 million he already rules over. That's about a third more people to rule over, and he's not concerned about the later years of a peasant Russian. I assume he's concerned with more able bodied young men, which, ironically is a cohort he lacks while he tries to capture the country he's trying to obtain to help with that problem.

tinus_hn 3y ago

A number of reasons including * because they could (or so they thought) * because there’s a lot of important resources in the ground * because they want to lay down the border between NATO and Russia and preferably not at the border of Russia but on someone else’s turf

jasmer 3y ago

It's really odd to fathom who someone would not understand why Xi wants to take Taiwan, and 'chips' has nothing to do with it. People need to take a much, much broader mindset. China views Taiwan as part of China, and that's that. I personally don't, and the Taiwanese population ought to chose what they want without material interference, and 'we' should respect that by recognizing their sovereignty and statehood if that's what they want, much like at this point we ought to be recognizing Palestine as a state, if that's what they want. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is pure classical Imperialism, Ukraine is a 'sub Russian vassal' and Russian Imperialism is part of the Russian identity - it was 'secularized' during the time of USSR, now it's just old school. If you look at geopolitics from the 19th century it's all very clear. That said, it is odd Apple would do this in Taiwan, and, it's a much bigger jump than people think. This is a bold move and will reshape what Apple is, and maybe what a true international megacorp of the future looks like. It could also make them more fragile and if they start to falter, it could really fall apart. You need a lot to work well for this to be pulled off.