5 ms·

My only consolation in this shitstorm is that it's been expanded to include "all social media applications that collect and provide users' personal information

My only consolation in this shitstorm is that it's been expanded to include "all social media applications that collect and provide users' personal information or data to a foreign adversary, or a person or entity located within a country designated as a foreign adversary." So, yeah. I guess it's time to shut 'em all down. Now we just wait for the "I didn't mean American companies" retraction.

jameshart 3y ago
Where do you see that? As far as I can tell from the Montana legislature site, this motion to amend it along those lines failed: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/AmdHtmH/SB0419.002.002.PDF https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/AmdHtmH/SB0419.002.002.PDF The 'current bill text' is this: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/billhtml/SB0419.htm https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/billhtml/SB0419.htm And what it covers is: Tiktok may not operate within the territorial jurisdiction of Montana. An entity violates this prohibition when any of the following occurs within the territorial jurisdiction of Montana: (a) the operation of tiktok by the company or users; or (b) the option to download the tiktok mobile application by a mobile application store.
- falcolas 3y ago
  Greg Gianforte's own words, as recorded here: https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176805559/montana-tiktok-ban https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176805559/montana-tiktok-ban
  - jameshart 3y ago
    Refers to a separate ban - just a gubernatorial directive - that bans TikTok from government devices: > Last December, Gianforte banned TikTok on state government electronic devices. On Wednesday, he added that the ban would expand to include "all social media applications that collect and provide users' personal information or data to a foreign adversary, or a person or entity located within a country designated as a foreign adversary."
    - falcolas 3y ago
      Hmm. It doesn't identify which ban, a good point.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
Yep, the "lets ban TikTok because they're foreign and might potentially misuse data." is a silly, shallow reaction that doesn't deal with the real problems and the known, not potential, issues. It seems like a distraction. Data misuse is real concern. But TikTok is not the main problem, it's industry-wide. A good Data Protection legislation that applies to all, and is applied to TikTok if they warrant it (and also to FaceBook, etc) and the next social media that starts up next year, would be much better. EU GDPR style. If none of these companies can live with that, then so be it, shut 'em all down.
- 99_00 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - icecreamtoilet 3y ago
    [flagged]
brentm 3y ago
The article I read in WSJ last night said otherwise. It said that the lawmaker who introduced the bill wanted to modify it to include that language but it was too late in the process to do so. The lawmaker believed having the language would have made it more easier to avoid legal scrutiny.
JohnFen 3y ago
That such bans don't include domestic companies spying on people and providing that data to domestic entities says everything about how bankrupt this whole thing is.
- dkarl 3y ago
  Mainstream conservatives/Republicans swung hard in the direction of supporting domestic spying and surveillance in the early 2000s and have never swung back. They hate the government but (with some justification) assume that law enforcement is on their side.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > They hate the government Judging by their positions and actions, they don't hate government at all. They love government. They just hate it when government doesn't enthusiastically support what they want.
  - atdrummond 3y ago
    Given how much distrust there is of DHS/FBI among Trump supporters/GOP base, I’m not sure this is true; especially with many neocons returning to the Democratic Party they came from originally. Elected GOP officials are a completely different beast from much of their own base.
    - dkarl 3y ago
      I'm making a generalization that doesn't include every single element of the right, but these days the rhetoric against federal law enforcement has no chance of getting turned into policy. Distrust of government is an integral part of conservative rhetoric, and incidents like Waco and Ruby Ridge remain a cherished part of their mythology, but there's a big difference between the 1990s, when they were demanding investigations and limitations on the FBI's power to surveil and act against American citizens, and anytime since 9/11, when they have wanted the FBI to have more power to surveil and act against American citizens, even under Democratic administrations. You wouldn't be able to get Republican support for reducing the power of federal law enforcement even if Joe Biden died and Kamala Harris became president. Maybe their paranoia would get sufficiently revived if they were facing a President-Elect AOC in 2024... but I'd rather not think about how they would behave under those circumstances.

jameshart 3y ago

Where do you see that? As far as I can tell from the Montana legislature site, this motion to amend it along those lines failed: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/AmdHtmH/SB0419.002.002.PDF https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/AmdHtmH/SB0419.002.002.PDF The 'current bill text' is this: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/billhtml/SB0419.htm https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2023/billhtml/SB0419.htm And what it covers is: Tiktok may not operate within the territorial jurisdiction of Montana. An entity violates this prohibition when any of the following occurs within the territorial jurisdiction of Montana: (a) the operation of tiktok by the company or users; or (b) the option to download the tiktok mobile application by a mobile application store.

falcolas 3y ago
Greg Gianforte's own words, as recorded here: https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176805559/montana-tiktok-ban https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176805559/montana-tiktok-ban
- jameshart 3y ago
  Refers to a separate ban - just a gubernatorial directive - that bans TikTok from government devices: > Last December, Gianforte banned TikTok on state government electronic devices. On Wednesday, he added that the ban would expand to include "all social media applications that collect and provide users' personal information or data to a foreign adversary, or a person or entity located within a country designated as a foreign adversary."
  - falcolas 3y ago
    Hmm. It doesn't identify which ban, a good point.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago

Yep, the "lets ban TikTok because they're foreign and might potentially misuse data." is a silly, shallow reaction that doesn't deal with the real problems and the known, not potential, issues. It seems like a distraction. Data misuse is real concern. But TikTok is not the main problem, it's industry-wide. A good Data Protection legislation that applies to all, and is applied to TikTok if they warrant it (and also to FaceBook, etc) and the next social media that starts up next year, would be much better. EU GDPR style. If none of these companies can live with that, then so be it, shut 'em all down.

99_00 3y ago
[flagged]
- icecreamtoilet 3y ago
  [flagged]

brentm 3y ago

The article I read in WSJ last night said otherwise. It said that the lawmaker who introduced the bill wanted to modify it to include that language but it was too late in the process to do so. The lawmaker believed having the language would have made it more easier to avoid legal scrutiny.

JohnFen 3y ago

That such bans don't include domestic companies spying on people and providing that data to domestic entities says everything about how bankrupt this whole thing is.

dkarl 3y ago
Mainstream conservatives/Republicans swung hard in the direction of supporting domestic spying and surveillance in the early 2000s and have never swung back. They hate the government but (with some justification) assume that law enforcement is on their side.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > They hate the government Judging by their positions and actions, they don't hate government at all. They love government. They just hate it when government doesn't enthusiastically support what they want.
- atdrummond 3y ago
  Given how much distrust there is of DHS/FBI among Trump supporters/GOP base, I’m not sure this is true; especially with many neocons returning to the Democratic Party they came from originally. Elected GOP officials are a completely different beast from much of their own base.
  - dkarl 3y ago
    I'm making a generalization that doesn't include every single element of the right, but these days the rhetoric against federal law enforcement has no chance of getting turned into policy. Distrust of government is an integral part of conservative rhetoric, and incidents like Waco and Ruby Ridge remain a cherished part of their mythology, but there's a big difference between the 1990s, when they were demanding investigations and limitations on the FBI's power to surveil and act against American citizens, and anytime since 9/11, when they have wanted the FBI to have more power to surveil and act against American citizens, even under Democratic administrations. You wouldn't be able to get Republican support for reducing the power of federal law enforcement even if Joe Biden died and Kamala Harris became president. Maybe their paranoia would get sufficiently revived if they were facing a President-Elect AOC in 2024... but I'd rather not think about how they would behave under those circumstances.