4 ms·

And also very American-ised. This forced positivity seems to be a cultural aspect of American life.

ChatGTP 3y ago
I agree with the forced positivity thing, I work for an American firm and if you're not positive, you're reprimanded. I had to be told several times to learn to feedback constructively. While I do appreciate this, and I understand it, I just feel like a robot now, not a human at work. So much tip toeing around issues it all just feels so fake and there is little room for emotion. Sometimes, I think it's ok to just be honest with people , but not in America for some reason.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  FWIW, my experience (being a 45yo who immigrated to North America at 15) is that "Culture of fake niceness" predates "Culture of Emotional intelligence and empathy" I find in last few years, many people/groups/companies are working toward increased emotional intelligence and empathy. I see that as a good thing. It just gets mixed up with the original "somewhat real but also somewhat fake classless friendly positive culture". It's... nice that I can call my client Bob and my VP Laurie, instead of Mr Neubauer and Mz Jameson. It's nice that we speak as equals. It's however false to then erroneously assume that we are equals or that we have equal relationship, so there are layers and nuances to lessons a newbie to north american corporate life needs to learn and internalize. Anyhoo, what I'm getting to: the "original corporate fake positiveness/niceness" indeed could suck the life out of me. The "new & improved show empathy and grow emotional intelligence" I quite enjoy; it's a good challenge for systems-oriented nerd actually. I always think "What leads us to Star Trek future" and I think empathy is a key factor. So showing empathy in code review is good. Showing sterile niceness and avoiding constructive criticism is bad. It can be easy to mix them up though. My 100 Croatian Lipa, FWIW :->
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    Interesting take on it, and I've seen things trend in that direction, which is a good thing, I agree.
- SkyMarshal 3y ago
  As an American, I think there are two sides to this coin. On the one hand we have various (annoying) forms of forced positivity. American cheerleader culture is one, the cult of PMA (Positive Mental Attitude) is another, and similar things. It’s like some of us think the natural state of humans is to be overtly happy all the time, and if you’re not you’re deviant. On the other hand though, toxicity is worth avoiding. It can ruin team dynamics, and turn a high-functioning org into a backstabbing dysfunctional one. For instance, one wise thing Joe Biden did at the start of his term was to require that everyone in his administration be nice to each other, treat their colleagues with respect and dignity [1]. He was preemptively killing toxicity before it could emerge. HN enforces this too as a matter of policy. You can of course have the latter without the former. And criticism can be constructive and honest without being overtly cheery. (The Japanese are good at this fwiw - “Fix the problem not the blame”). But some Americans, subcultures, and corporate cultures, don’t always understand the distinction and mix them up. And some business people believe that happy workers are more productive, and so encourage positivity for that reason, even though studies on the subject have long produced mixed results. [1]:https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-administration-be-nice-or-i-will-fire-you https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-administration-be-nic...
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  I think this is just "colder" Europeans that can't understand that Americans are usually genuinely happy in those interactions. Like, they aren't being fake or lying to you when they are overly nice and positive. It's just how they actually feel. I'm neither American nor European but I honestly always felt that Americans are much warmer and genuine than Europeans whenever I visit. But I guess it is harder to see when you are used to be in a colder "rude by default" environment.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    It's not how they feel at all. Or, if they do actually feel that way... it's inadvertently the "fake it till you make it" where they have done this for so long and so intensely that they've tricked themselves into feeling it. It's likely the origin of some large fraction of mental illnesses.
  - watwut 3y ago
    They are not genuine at all. It is just that the express themselves in an passive aggressive way and interpret people expressing doubt as rudeness.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
pjlegato 3y ago
Let's not overly stereotype here. America is a huge place with many radically distinct cultural regions. Certain regions have this "forced positivity culture," notably the west coast. Others, such as the northeast, are famous for the opposite. American regional cultural differences are obscured -- especially to foreigners -- by the use of a common language. California is as culturally different from Maine as Portugual is from Norway.
- june_twenty 3y ago
  That's what a stereotype is. It doesn't dive into nuances.

I agree with the forced positivity thing, I work for an American firm and if you're not positive, you're reprimanded. I had to be told several times to learn to feedback constructively. While I do appreciate this, and I understand it, I just feel like a robot now, not a human at work. So much tip toeing around issues it all just feels so fake and there is little room for emotion. Sometimes, I think it's ok to just be honest with people , but not in America for some reason.

NikolaNovak 3y ago
FWIW, my experience (being a 45yo who immigrated to North America at 15) is that "Culture of fake niceness" predates "Culture of Emotional intelligence and empathy" I find in last few years, many people/groups/companies are working toward increased emotional intelligence and empathy. I see that as a good thing. It just gets mixed up with the original "somewhat real but also somewhat fake classless friendly positive culture". It's... nice that I can call my client Bob and my VP Laurie, instead of Mr Neubauer and Mz Jameson. It's nice that we speak as equals. It's however false to then erroneously assume that we are equals or that we have equal relationship, so there are layers and nuances to lessons a newbie to north american corporate life needs to learn and internalize. Anyhoo, what I'm getting to: the "original corporate fake positiveness/niceness" indeed could suck the life out of me. The "new & improved show empathy and grow emotional intelligence" I quite enjoy; it's a good challenge for systems-oriented nerd actually. I always think "What leads us to Star Trek future" and I think empathy is a key factor. So showing empathy in code review is good. Showing sterile niceness and avoiding constructive criticism is bad. It can be easy to mix them up though. My 100 Croatian Lipa, FWIW :->
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  Interesting take on it, and I've seen things trend in that direction, which is a good thing, I agree.
SkyMarshal 3y ago
As an American, I think there are two sides to this coin. On the one hand we have various (annoying) forms of forced positivity. American cheerleader culture is one, the cult of PMA (Positive Mental Attitude) is another, and similar things. It’s like some of us think the natural state of humans is to be overtly happy all the time, and if you’re not you’re deviant. On the other hand though, toxicity is worth avoiding. It can ruin team dynamics, and turn a high-functioning org into a backstabbing dysfunctional one. For instance, one wise thing Joe Biden did at the start of his term was to require that everyone in his administration be nice to each other, treat their colleagues with respect and dignity [1]. He was preemptively killing toxicity before it could emerge. HN enforces this too as a matter of policy. You can of course have the latter without the former. And criticism can be constructive and honest without being overtly cheery. (The Japanese are good at this fwiw - “Fix the problem not the blame”). But some Americans, subcultures, and corporate cultures, don’t always understand the distinction and mix them up. And some business people believe that happy workers are more productive, and so encourage positivity for that reason, even though studies on the subject have long produced mixed results. [1]:https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-administration-be-nice-or-i-will-fire-you https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-administration-be-nic...
mardifoufs 3y ago
I think this is just "colder" Europeans that can't understand that Americans are usually genuinely happy in those interactions. Like, they aren't being fake or lying to you when they are overly nice and positive. It's just how they actually feel. I'm neither American nor European but I honestly always felt that Americans are much warmer and genuine than Europeans whenever I visit. But I guess it is harder to see when you are used to be in a colder "rude by default" environment.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  It's not how they feel at all. Or, if they do actually feel that way... it's inadvertently the "fake it till you make it" where they have done this for so long and so intensely that they've tricked themselves into feeling it. It's likely the origin of some large fraction of mental illnesses.
- watwut 3y ago
  They are not genuine at all. It is just that the express themselves in an passive aggressive way and interpret people expressing doubt as rudeness.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

pjlegato 3y ago

Let's not overly stereotype here. America is a huge place with many radically distinct cultural regions. Certain regions have this "forced positivity culture," notably the west coast. Others, such as the northeast, are famous for the opposite. American regional cultural differences are obscured -- especially to foreigners -- by the use of a common language. California is as culturally different from Maine as Portugual is from Norway.

june_twenty 3y ago
That's what a stereotype is. It doesn't dive into nuances.