3 ms·

>> >A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. > No. Alright, I must have dreamed

by toyg 3y ago

>> >A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. > No. Alright, I must have dreamed all that juicy delocalization that basically makes for a whole branch of academic studies nowadays... > How dares the est stand up for themselves Nobody denies anything to anyone, but western audiences are a bit tired of the lack of grace and gratefulness exhibited by areas that continue (and intend to continue) to be massive recipients of Union funds. > when some countries are constantly being milked Except nobody is being "milked" - every country in the Union experiences tradeoffs. France, Italy, and Spain benefit from financial stability but suffer from job losses; Germany benefits from economic growth while subsidizing the rest of the continent; and Eastern countries benefit from subsidies and job creation while struggling to build national champions. It's a give-and-take for everyone, which is why this continuous self-victimization exhibited by certain audiences is incredibly tiresome.

gumballindie 3y ago
I find it incredibly amusing when someone from a country that left the eu because of the burocratic burden and unfair policies complains about people complaining about similar issues. Whats even more amusing is when said country is on a fast track to becoming irrelevant. Pretty sure the eu is making them payments as a means to compensate for the job losses you mentioned that it created and for the trade tariffs they no longer charge when importing them sweet, subsidised, german cars.
- eropple 3y ago
  > I find it incredibly amusing when someone from a country that left the eu because of the burocratic burden and unfair policies complains about people complaining about similar issues. Whats even more amusing is when said country is on a fast track to becoming irrelevant. This doesn't follow at all unless you somehow are able to tell that the poster to whom you reply didn't vote Remain. "Your fellow citizens bought into lies splattered on the side of a bus, shut up" is not the dunk you think it is.
- toyg 3y ago
  I'm Italian and living in UK (for my sins), so I think I can see more than one facet of the argument. > Pretty sure the eu is making them payments as a means to compensate for the job losses How do these lies are even invented...? Development payments are a mean to bring countries up to scratch. They are allocated with formulas that look at development potential per capita, which is why even struggling areas inside western countries (from Wales to Calabria to Northern Spain to Greece) receive them. It just so happens that Eastern countries receive disproportionate amounts because of the state they found themselves in after the end of the Soviet Bloc. The European Community was built on the principle of solidarity, and those payments are one massive expression of such solidarity. Sadly, the largest recipients seem to avoid expressing any solidarity back in other areas.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    > I'm Italian and living in UK (for my sins), so I think I can see more than one facet of the argument. The giveaway was commenting about gratefulness, lies and audiences, when my comment is strictly about policy and imbalance and what i suspect the reason may be within the EU. Somehow you dragged the whole west in a debate about policy that benefits west europe more than east and south europe. The european community wasn't built out of solidarity, it was built as a mechanism to ensure we don't resort to barbarism again, as we did our entire history. The armed conflicts of last century are the economic wars of today, at least within the eu. Talking about “solidarity” and “recipients” is, i am sorry, amusing. I cant entertain this thought path any further simply because this is not a pub and we are not drunks.
    - toyg 3y ago
      > The european community wasn't built out of solidarity, it was built as a mechanism to ensure we don't resort to barbarism again You should read the Treaty of Rome before you try to act all mighty about stuff you clearly don't fully understand. The word solidarity is in the founding principles, and it actually comes even before "peace". The Treaty established the European Social Fund as well as the investment bank. Economic solidarity has always been the key policy to achieve progress in other areas. Most of the money the EU handles today, like yesterday, is used towards enacting that. Everything else, i am sorry, is hot air (and yes, lies).

by toyg 3y ago

gumballindie 3y ago

I find it incredibly amusing when someone from a country that left the eu because of the burocratic burden and unfair policies complains about people complaining about similar issues. Whats even more amusing is when said country is on a fast track to becoming irrelevant. Pretty sure the eu is making them payments as a means to compensate for the job losses you mentioned that it created and for the trade tariffs they no longer charge when importing them sweet, subsidised, german cars.

eropple 3y ago
> I find it incredibly amusing when someone from a country that left the eu because of the burocratic burden and unfair policies complains about people complaining about similar issues. Whats even more amusing is when said country is on a fast track to becoming irrelevant. This doesn't follow at all unless you somehow are able to tell that the poster to whom you reply didn't vote Remain. "Your fellow citizens bought into lies splattered on the side of a bus, shut up" is not the dunk you think it is.
toyg 3y ago
I'm Italian and living in UK (for my sins), so I think I can see more than one facet of the argument. > Pretty sure the eu is making them payments as a means to compensate for the job losses How do these lies are even invented...? Development payments are a mean to bring countries up to scratch. They are allocated with formulas that look at development potential per capita, which is why even struggling areas inside western countries (from Wales to Calabria to Northern Spain to Greece) receive them. It just so happens that Eastern countries receive disproportionate amounts because of the state they found themselves in after the end of the Soviet Bloc. The European Community was built on the principle of solidarity, and those payments are one massive expression of such solidarity. Sadly, the largest recipients seem to avoid expressing any solidarity back in other areas.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  > I'm Italian and living in UK (for my sins), so I think I can see more than one facet of the argument. The giveaway was commenting about gratefulness, lies and audiences, when my comment is strictly about policy and imbalance and what i suspect the reason may be within the EU. Somehow you dragged the whole west in a debate about policy that benefits west europe more than east and south europe. The european community wasn't built out of solidarity, it was built as a mechanism to ensure we don't resort to barbarism again, as we did our entire history. The armed conflicts of last century are the economic wars of today, at least within the eu. Talking about “solidarity” and “recipients” is, i am sorry, amusing. I cant entertain this thought path any further simply because this is not a pub and we are not drunks.
  - toyg 3y ago
    > The european community wasn't built out of solidarity, it was built as a mechanism to ensure we don't resort to barbarism again You should read the Treaty of Rome before you try to act all mighty about stuff you clearly don't fully understand. The word solidarity is in the founding principles, and it actually comes even before "peace". The Treaty established the European Social Fund as well as the investment bank. Economic solidarity has always been the key policy to achieve progress in other areas. Most of the money the EU handles today, like yesterday, is used towards enacting that. Everything else, i am sorry, is hot air (and yes, lies).