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>A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. No. If you go to any supermarket in th

>A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. No. If you go to any supermarket in the east you'll find mostly German or French made products on the food shelves. A lot of the local made products became "illegal" after joining the EU. Now it's better and we have more local products but the trade deficit is still huge. >political headaches Funny how poor eastern countries not wanting to be abused by rich western ones and their corporations and using their legal voting rights in the EU, are considered "political headaches". Ohh, poor rich western companies. How dares the est stand up for themselves and not bend over to their rich overlords? The west should have realized that you can't have a balanced democratic union when some countries are constantly being milked and treated as second class citizens in a theoretically equalitarian union ruled by the rich for the rich.

toyg 3y ago
>> >A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. > No. Alright, I must have dreamed all that juicy delocalization that basically makes for a whole branch of academic studies nowadays... > How dares the est stand up for themselves Nobody denies anything to anyone, but western audiences are a bit tired of the lack of grace and gratefulness exhibited by areas that continue (and intend to continue) to be massive recipients of Union funds. > when some countries are constantly being milked Except nobody is being "milked" - every country in the Union experiences tradeoffs. France, Italy, and Spain benefit from financial stability but suffer from job losses; Germany benefits from economic growth while subsidizing the rest of the continent; and Eastern countries benefit from subsidies and job creation while struggling to build national champions. It's a give-and-take for everyone, which is why this continuous self-victimization exhibited by certain audiences is incredibly tiresome.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  I find it incredibly amusing when someone from a country that left the eu because of the burocratic burden and unfair policies complains about people complaining about similar issues. Whats even more amusing is when said country is on a fast track to becoming irrelevant. Pretty sure the eu is making them payments as a means to compensate for the job losses you mentioned that it created and for the trade tariffs they no longer charge when importing them sweet, subsidised, german cars.
  - eropple 3y ago
    > I find it incredibly amusing when someone from a country that left the eu because of the burocratic burden and unfair policies complains about people complaining about similar issues. Whats even more amusing is when said country is on a fast track to becoming irrelevant. This doesn't follow at all unless you somehow are able to tell that the poster to whom you reply didn't vote Remain. "Your fellow citizens bought into lies splattered on the side of a bus, shut up" is not the dunk you think it is.
  - toyg 3y ago
    I'm Italian and living in UK (for my sins), so I think I can see more than one facet of the argument. > Pretty sure the eu is making them payments as a means to compensate for the job losses How do these lies are even invented...? Development payments are a mean to bring countries up to scratch. They are allocated with formulas that look at development potential per capita, which is why even struggling areas inside western countries (from Wales to Calabria to Northern Spain to Greece) receive them. It just so happens that Eastern countries receive disproportionate amounts because of the state they found themselves in after the end of the Soviet Bloc. The European Community was built on the principle of solidarity, and those payments are one massive expression of such solidarity. Sadly, the largest recipients seem to avoid expressing any solidarity back in other areas.
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      > I'm Italian and living in UK (for my sins), so I think I can see more than one facet of the argument. The giveaway was commenting about gratefulness, lies and audiences, when my comment is strictly about policy and imbalance and what i suspect the reason may be within the EU. Somehow you dragged the whole west in a debate about policy that benefits west europe more than east and south europe. The european community wasn't built out of solidarity, it was built as a mechanism to ensure we don't resort to barbarism again, as we did our entire history. The armed conflicts of last century are the economic wars of today, at least within the eu. Talking about “solidarity” and “recipients” is, i am sorry, amusing. I cant entertain this thought path any further simply because this is not a pub and we are not drunks.

toyg 3y ago

>> >A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. > No. Alright, I must have dreamed all that juicy delocalization that basically makes for a whole branch of academic studies nowadays... > How dares the est stand up for themselves Nobody denies anything to anyone, but western audiences are a bit tired of the lack of grace and gratefulness exhibited by areas that continue (and intend to continue) to be massive recipients of Union funds. > when some countries are constantly being milked Except nobody is being "milked" - every country in the Union experiences tradeoffs. France, Italy, and Spain benefit from financial stability but suffer from job losses; Germany benefits from economic growth while subsidizing the rest of the continent; and Eastern countries benefit from subsidies and job creation while struggling to build national champions. It's a give-and-take for everyone, which is why this continuous self-victimization exhibited by certain audiences is incredibly tiresome.

gumballindie 3y ago
I find it incredibly amusing when someone from a country that left the eu because of the burocratic burden and unfair policies complains about people complaining about similar issues. Whats even more amusing is when said country is on a fast track to becoming irrelevant. Pretty sure the eu is making them payments as a means to compensate for the job losses you mentioned that it created and for the trade tariffs they no longer charge when importing them sweet, subsidised, german cars.
- eropple 3y ago
  > I find it incredibly amusing when someone from a country that left the eu because of the burocratic burden and unfair policies complains about people complaining about similar issues. Whats even more amusing is when said country is on a fast track to becoming irrelevant. This doesn't follow at all unless you somehow are able to tell that the poster to whom you reply didn't vote Remain. "Your fellow citizens bought into lies splattered on the side of a bus, shut up" is not the dunk you think it is.
- toyg 3y ago
  I'm Italian and living in UK (for my sins), so I think I can see more than one facet of the argument. > Pretty sure the eu is making them payments as a means to compensate for the job losses How do these lies are even invented...? Development payments are a mean to bring countries up to scratch. They are allocated with formulas that look at development potential per capita, which is why even struggling areas inside western countries (from Wales to Calabria to Northern Spain to Greece) receive them. It just so happens that Eastern countries receive disproportionate amounts because of the state they found themselves in after the end of the Soviet Bloc. The European Community was built on the principle of solidarity, and those payments are one massive expression of such solidarity. Sadly, the largest recipients seem to avoid expressing any solidarity back in other areas.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    > I'm Italian and living in UK (for my sins), so I think I can see more than one facet of the argument. The giveaway was commenting about gratefulness, lies and audiences, when my comment is strictly about policy and imbalance and what i suspect the reason may be within the EU. Somehow you dragged the whole west in a debate about policy that benefits west europe more than east and south europe. The european community wasn't built out of solidarity, it was built as a mechanism to ensure we don't resort to barbarism again, as we did our entire history. The armed conflicts of last century are the economic wars of today, at least within the eu. Talking about “solidarity” and “recipients” is, i am sorry, amusing. I cant entertain this thought path any further simply because this is not a pub and we are not drunks.