6 ms·

>help them adapt No, this is a sales tactic to improve customer retention. By lifting restrictions, anxiety, undue pressure, the customer (freshman) is more l

>help them adapt No, this is a sales tactic to improve customer retention. By lifting restrictions, anxiety, undue pressure, the customer (freshman) is more likely to commit to the product (4-year degree). After the customer has committed for a year, they are less likely to change or drop the brand (the college). Then it's business as usual. Four full years of tuition, less customer churn. They don't care about their students "adapting". They care about lots and lots of money.

hotpotamus 3y ago
> They care about lots and lots of money. What better lesson could the colleges teach them to prepare them for the business world?
- bumby 3y ago
  Perhaps ethics, civics, and other topics that have to be balanced against the singular idea that the goal is to maximize profit.
dgacmu 3y ago
Not really. This is needlessly cynical. The transition to college is a big one for many students, with a whole lot of "it depends". At a hard school, students are put in a situation where they might have to manage time and learn to study for the first time, and many learn some very hard lessons along that path. MIT has had first years go pass/no record for decades for exactly this reason. And I see the exact same pattern in my undergrads at CMU. (And yes, we really do care about our students adapting, at least at the faculty level. We're educators, for crying out loud. You don't think we take the industry pay cut because we feel guilty about earning money, do you?)
bumby 3y ago
>No, this is a sales tactic to improve customer retention. This is one of Jonathan Haidt’s points about what has led to many of the problems at universities. When the “students” are treated as “customers” it causes universities to work against their stated missions in order to placate their customer base.
- LatteLazy 3y ago
  Say what you like but... Students ARE the customers. When the state/local government, tax payers etc paid for education, they could reasonably have a say. But that's not the case anymore. And If I am being asked for 100k I damn well expect a few parties, a nice gym and a low stress experience.
  - dh2022 3y ago
    Not sure if you meant to be sarcastic, but parties, gym, pool, snowboarding trips, are available for a lot less than 100K.
  - bumby 3y ago
    Maybe only for a few colleges that refuse govt funds (e.g., Hillsdale college). But most still receive a huge amount of public money.
    - EatingWithForks 3y ago
      Public money for universities have actually scaled back over time. > A majority of state legislatures spent far less on public colleges and universities in 2020 than they did in 2008, an NEA analysis shows. This means colleges and universities must rely on students to pay the cost of college—and those students are borrowing to do it. https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/state-funding-higher-education-still-lagging https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/state...
      - nunuvit 3y ago
        Also after taking away the ability to forgive federal student loan debt through bankruptcy, there needs to be a way for students to advocate for their outcomes because there's no remedy if it doesn't go well for them.
        bumby 3y ago
        Can you clarify what you mean by advocating for their outcomes?
sieongioetnio 3y ago
You just said the same thing dressed up in cynical language.

hotpotamus 3y ago

> They care about lots and lots of money. What better lesson could the colleges teach them to prepare them for the business world?

bumby 3y ago
Perhaps ethics, civics, and other topics that have to be balanced against the singular idea that the goal is to maximize profit.

dgacmu 3y ago

Not really. This is needlessly cynical. The transition to college is a big one for many students, with a whole lot of "it depends". At a hard school, students are put in a situation where they might have to manage time and learn to study for the first time, and many learn some very hard lessons along that path. MIT has had first years go pass/no record for decades for exactly this reason. And I see the exact same pattern in my undergrads at CMU. (And yes, we really do care about our students adapting, at least at the faculty level. We're educators, for crying out loud. You don't think we take the industry pay cut because we feel guilty about earning money, do you?)

bumby 3y ago

>No, this is a sales tactic to improve customer retention. This is one of Jonathan Haidt’s points about what has led to many of the problems at universities. When the “students” are treated as “customers” it causes universities to work against their stated missions in order to placate their customer base.

LatteLazy 3y ago
Say what you like but... Students ARE the customers. When the state/local government, tax payers etc paid for education, they could reasonably have a say. But that's not the case anymore. And If I am being asked for 100k I damn well expect a few parties, a nice gym and a low stress experience.
- dh2022 3y ago
  Not sure if you meant to be sarcastic, but parties, gym, pool, snowboarding trips, are available for a lot less than 100K.
- bumby 3y ago
  Maybe only for a few colleges that refuse govt funds (e.g., Hillsdale college). But most still receive a huge amount of public money.
  - EatingWithForks 3y ago
    Public money for universities have actually scaled back over time. > A majority of state legislatures spent far less on public colleges and universities in 2020 than they did in 2008, an NEA analysis shows. This means colleges and universities must rely on students to pay the cost of college—and those students are borrowing to do it. https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/state-funding-higher-education-still-lagging https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/state...
    - nunuvit 3y ago
      Also after taking away the ability to forgive federal student loan debt through bankruptcy, there needs to be a way for students to advocate for their outcomes because there's no remedy if it doesn't go well for them.
      - bumby 3y ago
        Can you clarify what you mean by advocating for their outcomes?

sieongioetnio 3y ago

You just said the same thing dressed up in cynical language.