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Apple and VW can afford to conform to complex birocratic standards. They have hundreds/thousands of people on the payroll just for that. Smaller companies or c

Apple and VW can afford to conform to complex birocratic standards. They have hundreds/thousands of people on the payroll just for that. Smaller companies or companies from poorer countries can't. A lot of companies in Eastern Europe were obliterated when joining the EU and our local market was flooded with goods made in the west since the local ones weren't "up to standard" anymore. Even today we still have a huge trade deficit with the west as we import far more than we export.

gumballindie 3y ago
All you need is a short walk around east european supermarkets and you’ll notice there are rarely any east eu supermarket brands and few east european made goods in them. Despite the quality being far higher than say india or china somehow east eu products dont meet eu “standards” and as such are not good enough. But that’s not an issue for counterfeit chinese goods made using slave labour. Not to mention that west european products are often of lower quality than in their home countries, and more expensive.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Counterfeits are their own issue. In short: more developed countries, better laws and their enforcement, more risky to manufacture counterfeit goods. As for low-quality products from China - until recently, Chinese vendors didn't even sell directly to customers in Europe. Most of the garbage products were, and still are, western products, which are only made in China, because... everything is made in China. It's the world's 3D printer. Chinese manufacturers can make goods to arbitrarily high or low quality standards - it's up to the company that orders production to choose how much quality they want to pay for. That is, if you see a shitty product made in China for a western company, don't blame China - it's the western company that chose to request production of low-quality garbage.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    You are right, I shouldn't have made it sound as if I am blaming china. The issue lies entirely with those ordering and selling low quality products made there. But that doesn't imply china is only making low quality products or indeed that it's them pushing their products to europe.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      FWIW, Chinese vendors absolutely are responsible for the absurd amount of garbage they put up for sale on Aliexpress (if you order directly, there aren't even dropshippers involved). But that's a relatively recent development.
- toyg 3y ago
  A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. You don't have brands but have jobs, often displaced from Western countries. This was always the trade-off for letting Eastern countries in the bloc: they were meant to provide new markets and new labor for (largely German) established companies. In exchange, they got loads of money to raise their infrastructural standards and overall quality of life. If these countries think they're not happy with the arrangement anymore, they're more than welcome to leave. Like what happened with Brexit, they would remove a number of political headaches, hence fostering deeper integration between remaining countries.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    >A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. No. If you go to any supermarket in the east you'll find mostly German or French made products on the food shelves. A lot of the local made products became "illegal" after joining the EU. Now it's better and we have more local products but the trade deficit is still huge. >political headaches Funny how poor eastern countries not wanting to be abused by rich western ones and their corporations and using their legal voting rights in the EU, are considered "political headaches". Ohh, poor rich western companies. How dares the est stand up for themselves and not bend over to their rich overlords? The west should have realized that you can't have a balanced democratic union when some countries are constantly being milked and treated as second class citizens in a theoretically equalitarian union ruled by the rich for the rich.
    - toyg 3y ago
      >> >A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. > No. Alright, I must have dreamed all that juicy delocalization that basically makes for a whole branch of academic studies nowadays... > How dares the est stand up for themselves Nobody denies anything to anyone, but western audiences are a bit tired of the lack of grace and gratefulness exhibited by areas that continue (and intend to continue) to be massive recipients of Union funds. > when some countries are constantly being milked Except nobody is being "milked" - every country in the Union experiences tradeoffs. France, Italy, and Spain benefit from financial stability but suffer from job losses; Germany benefits from economic growth while subsidizing the rest of the continent; and Eastern countries benefit from subsidies and job creation while struggling to build national champions. It's a give-and-take for everyone, which is why this continuous self-victimization exhibited by certain audiences is incredibly tiresome.
briantakita 3y ago
> A lot of companies in Eastern Europe were obliterated when joining the EU and our local market was flooded with goods made in the west since the local ones weren't "up to standard" anymore. Even today we still have a huge trade deficit with the west as we import far more than we export. This is the definition of colonialism. Expect the deficit to continue as your state is a colony. I grew up on Maui. The pineapple & sugar cane were farmed there with inexpensive labor. The raw materials were lightly processed & shipped to the mainland to be manufactured. The sugar & to a lesser extent canned pineapple (it was easy to get fresh pineapple) were then sold at retail to the residents of Maui. HC&S (the sugar company) controlled the agricultural fresh water, so no agricultural competition could arise. The local residents were not happy & conducted social, religious, & political action which included adhering to indigenous cultural practices to gain some concessions. If you study the history of Hawaii & how its monarchy was overthrown in a coup by US business interests with the help of the US military (to protect the interests of US citizens of course) & the events since, you will have a set of tools to keep what is rightfully yours. Of course Hawaii is now a US State with a large military base & munitions. Aquifers are polluted by jet fuel from the US Navy which it still has not taken appropriate action for. The struggle continues...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- dingledork69 3y ago
  Wait, so you're blaming the EU for giving you access to a free market after literally begging to join?
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    Well gp is referring to the us and maui. But to your point specifically not being a member of the eu is equal to being embargoed or sanctioned if you are a european country. It covers so much of the continent that it should be a right not a privilege. Either it gets dismantled or is free and equal for all.
  - acadapter 3y ago

gumballindie 3y ago

All you need is a short walk around east european supermarkets and you’ll notice there are rarely any east eu supermarket brands and few east european made goods in them. Despite the quality being far higher than say india or china somehow east eu products dont meet eu “standards” and as such are not good enough. But that’s not an issue for counterfeit chinese goods made using slave labour. Not to mention that west european products are often of lower quality than in their home countries, and more expensive.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
Counterfeits are their own issue. In short: more developed countries, better laws and their enforcement, more risky to manufacture counterfeit goods. As for low-quality products from China - until recently, Chinese vendors didn't even sell directly to customers in Europe. Most of the garbage products were, and still are, western products, which are only made in China, because... everything is made in China. It's the world's 3D printer. Chinese manufacturers can make goods to arbitrarily high or low quality standards - it's up to the company that orders production to choose how much quality they want to pay for. That is, if you see a shitty product made in China for a western company, don't blame China - it's the western company that chose to request production of low-quality garbage.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  You are right, I shouldn't have made it sound as if I am blaming china. The issue lies entirely with those ordering and selling low quality products made there. But that doesn't imply china is only making low quality products or indeed that it's them pushing their products to europe.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    FWIW, Chinese vendors absolutely are responsible for the absurd amount of garbage they put up for sale on Aliexpress (if you order directly, there aren't even dropshippers involved). But that's a relatively recent development.
toyg 3y ago
A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. You don't have brands but have jobs, often displaced from Western countries. This was always the trade-off for letting Eastern countries in the bloc: they were meant to provide new markets and new labor for (largely German) established companies. In exchange, they got loads of money to raise their infrastructural standards and overall quality of life. If these countries think they're not happy with the arrangement anymore, they're more than welcome to leave. Like what happened with Brexit, they would remove a number of political headaches, hence fostering deeper integration between remaining countries.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  >A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. No. If you go to any supermarket in the east you'll find mostly German or French made products on the food shelves. A lot of the local made products became "illegal" after joining the EU. Now it's better and we have more local products but the trade deficit is still huge. >political headaches Funny how poor eastern countries not wanting to be abused by rich western ones and their corporations and using their legal voting rights in the EU, are considered "political headaches". Ohh, poor rich western companies. How dares the est stand up for themselves and not bend over to their rich overlords? The west should have realized that you can't have a balanced democratic union when some countries are constantly being milked and treated as second class citizens in a theoretically equalitarian union ruled by the rich for the rich.
  - toyg 3y ago
    >> >A lot of those "western European" products are actually manufactured in Eastern Europe by cheap Eastern European labor. > No. Alright, I must have dreamed all that juicy delocalization that basically makes for a whole branch of academic studies nowadays... > How dares the est stand up for themselves Nobody denies anything to anyone, but western audiences are a bit tired of the lack of grace and gratefulness exhibited by areas that continue (and intend to continue) to be massive recipients of Union funds. > when some countries are constantly being milked Except nobody is being "milked" - every country in the Union experiences tradeoffs. France, Italy, and Spain benefit from financial stability but suffer from job losses; Germany benefits from economic growth while subsidizing the rest of the continent; and Eastern countries benefit from subsidies and job creation while struggling to build national champions. It's a give-and-take for everyone, which is why this continuous self-victimization exhibited by certain audiences is incredibly tiresome.

briantakita 3y ago

> A lot of companies in Eastern Europe were obliterated when joining the EU and our local market was flooded with goods made in the west since the local ones weren't "up to standard" anymore. Even today we still have a huge trade deficit with the west as we import far more than we export. This is the definition of colonialism. Expect the deficit to continue as your state is a colony. I grew up on Maui. The pineapple & sugar cane were farmed there with inexpensive labor. The raw materials were lightly processed & shipped to the mainland to be manufactured. The sugar & to a lesser extent canned pineapple (it was easy to get fresh pineapple) were then sold at retail to the residents of Maui. HC&S (the sugar company) controlled the agricultural fresh water, so no agricultural competition could arise. The local residents were not happy & conducted social, religious, & political action which included adhering to indigenous cultural practices to gain some concessions. If you study the history of Hawaii & how its monarchy was overthrown in a coup by US business interests with the help of the US military (to protect the interests of US citizens of course) & the events since, you will have a set of tools to keep what is rightfully yours. Of course Hawaii is now a US State with a large military base & munitions. Aquifers are polluted by jet fuel from the US Navy which it still has not taken appropriate action for. The struggle continues...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dingledork69 3y ago
Wait, so you're blaming the EU for giving you access to a free market after literally begging to join?
- gumballindie 3y ago
  Well gp is referring to the us and maui. But to your point specifically not being a member of the eu is equal to being embargoed or sanctioned if you are a european country. It covers so much of the continent that it should be a right not a privilege. Either it gets dismantled or is free and equal for all.
- acadapter 3y ago