3 ms·

Recently had to look at the property market again and the rents have increased significantly, in addition to the usual high cost of living increase and inflatio

Recently had to look at the property market again and the rents have increased significantly, in addition to the usual high cost of living increase and inflation/shrinkflation which doesn't show any signs of slowing down. I very much wonder how they expect "normal" people to survive. It looks like you need to fall quite far into the highest tax brackets just to be able to rent something decent in London, and buying is absolutely out of reach. Ironically enough, part of what makes those areas desirable is various businesses (such as food service, etc) that rely on low/unskilled labor to function, against which a war of attrition is being waged on. That war is being won and as a result a lot of those businesses have now themselves failed - I've now seen multiple repossession notices on closed restaurants/shopfronts and more and more vacant commercial property, and the high street never really recovered since the pandemic. As far as I'm concerned I am considering leaving this country once my current lease expires unless business picks up significantly to offset the increased costs (doesn't look likely from what I see). There is no reason to pay the money I am paying here if I can get better food, climate and general quality of life for the same (or even less!) money elsewhere in Europe.

yakshaving_jgt 3y ago
> There is no reason to pay the money I am paying here if I can get better food, climate and general quality of life for the same (or even less!) money elsewhere in Europe. We very much shot ourselves in the foot in that regard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfMGDFIossU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfMGDFIossU
bnastic 3y ago
> There is no reason to pay the money I am paying here if I can get better food, climate and general quality of life for the same (or even less!) money elsewhere in Europe Sure. And you should probably do that. But then a lot of other people are of the opinion that they can ignore food and weather and come to Britain. Net migration numbers in recent decades have not gone in favour of your line of thinking? UK high street is being attacked from multiple sides, from apparent lack of labour satisfied/pressured into low wages, to having their access being cut by the latest LTN measures around the country. Rental market is getting squeezed hard by the latest measures that will only make the situation worse, esp for London (I'm lucky I've escaped that place when I could). Current/incoming gov't is drunk on high taxation and more and more regulation of every facet of your life and business. But I'm still unsure my business/work would fare better in any other european country (forget Brexit, it doesn't have much to do with any of this). The malaise is everywhere.
- vidarh 3y ago
  If you're coming from a low income country and are in a life situation where you're willing to put up with worse living situation and more restrictive workers rights for a while to put aside money and then leave, coming to the UK is still an opportunity, so it's entirely unsurprising there's still a net inflow even though a lot of us are either leaving or considering it (I have family here that'll keep me here for a few more years, but once my son is no longer living between mine and his mums I likely won't stay long).
- rcarr 3y ago
  > Sure. And you should probably do that. But then a lot of other people are of the opinion that they can ignore food and weather and come to Britain. Net migration numbers in recent decades have not gone in favour of your line of thinking? Some of them are pretty surprised at the state of things when they get here. There was a report in the BBC that a lot of Ukrainian refugees find the education system and housing conditions an absolute joke compared to what they had back home.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    Which is weird, since the UK scores higher than most of its neighbours and North America in stuff like PISA scores. Quite a lot higher than some of them. Housing sucks though.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  > But then a lot of other people are of the opinion that they can ignore food and weather and come to Britain. Net migration numbers in recent decades have not gone in favour of your line of thinking? As a labor camp, Britain is very nice and efficient. Depending on the job, their country of origin, and whether they are able/willing to evade taxes, it may work out that a couple years of suffering in shitty conditions will yield a decent nest egg to enjoy back home. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a nice place to live and build a future in. I wonder if there are stats on the average length of stay of those immigrants?
vidarh 3y ago
My girlfriend rents relatively centrally in London, and her rent has gone up ~40%. I have no idea how people on average salaries - even average London salaries - can afford to stay much longer.
- cameronh90 3y ago
  On the other hand, housing occupancy rates are still high, arguably too high, despite the high cost of housing. For whatever reason, people deem it worth it to pay such high rents to remain living in London. London's population is still growing, albeit slower than before the pandemic.
  - vidarh 3y ago
    I'm guessing part of the challenge is that rental demand is fairly elastic in that people who might well want a house might be ok with a flat and put up with a flat share for the sake of a location they want or feel they need (e.g. due to work; family commitments etc.), and so even as people get squeezed out of the housing they want it might well take a lot before they move elsewhere.
- banannaise 3y ago
  It's like this all over the US too. The short answer is they can't. Rental companies have eaten all the disposable income, and now they're trying to come for the income that isn't disposable.

yakshaving_jgt 3y ago

> There is no reason to pay the money I am paying here if I can get better food, climate and general quality of life for the same (or even less!) money elsewhere in Europe. We very much shot ourselves in the foot in that regard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfMGDFIossU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfMGDFIossU

bnastic 3y ago

> There is no reason to pay the money I am paying here if I can get better food, climate and general quality of life for the same (or even less!) money elsewhere in Europe Sure. And you should probably do that. But then a lot of other people are of the opinion that they can ignore food and weather and come to Britain. Net migration numbers in recent decades have not gone in favour of your line of thinking? UK high street is being attacked from multiple sides, from apparent lack of labour satisfied/pressured into low wages, to having their access being cut by the latest LTN measures around the country. Rental market is getting squeezed hard by the latest measures that will only make the situation worse, esp for London (I'm lucky I've escaped that place when I could). Current/incoming gov't is drunk on high taxation and more and more regulation of every facet of your life and business. But I'm still unsure my business/work would fare better in any other european country (forget Brexit, it doesn't have much to do with any of this). The malaise is everywhere.

vidarh 3y ago
If you're coming from a low income country and are in a life situation where you're willing to put up with worse living situation and more restrictive workers rights for a while to put aside money and then leave, coming to the UK is still an opportunity, so it's entirely unsurprising there's still a net inflow even though a lot of us are either leaving or considering it (I have family here that'll keep me here for a few more years, but once my son is no longer living between mine and his mums I likely won't stay long).
rcarr 3y ago
> Sure. And you should probably do that. But then a lot of other people are of the opinion that they can ignore food and weather and come to Britain. Net migration numbers in recent decades have not gone in favour of your line of thinking? Some of them are pretty surprised at the state of things when they get here. There was a report in the BBC that a lot of Ukrainian refugees find the education system and housing conditions an absolute joke compared to what they had back home.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  Which is weird, since the UK scores higher than most of its neighbours and North America in stuff like PISA scores. Quite a lot higher than some of them. Housing sucks though.
Nextgrid 3y ago
> But then a lot of other people are of the opinion that they can ignore food and weather and come to Britain. Net migration numbers in recent decades have not gone in favour of your line of thinking? As a labor camp, Britain is very nice and efficient. Depending on the job, their country of origin, and whether they are able/willing to evade taxes, it may work out that a couple years of suffering in shitty conditions will yield a decent nest egg to enjoy back home. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a nice place to live and build a future in. I wonder if there are stats on the average length of stay of those immigrants?

vidarh 3y ago

My girlfriend rents relatively centrally in London, and her rent has gone up ~40%. I have no idea how people on average salaries - even average London salaries - can afford to stay much longer.

cameronh90 3y ago
On the other hand, housing occupancy rates are still high, arguably too high, despite the high cost of housing. For whatever reason, people deem it worth it to pay such high rents to remain living in London. London's population is still growing, albeit slower than before the pandemic.
- vidarh 3y ago
  I'm guessing part of the challenge is that rental demand is fairly elastic in that people who might well want a house might be ok with a flat and put up with a flat share for the sake of a location they want or feel they need (e.g. due to work; family commitments etc.), and so even as people get squeezed out of the housing they want it might well take a lot before they move elsewhere.
banannaise 3y ago
It's like this all over the US too. The short answer is they can't. Rental companies have eaten all the disposable income, and now they're trying to come for the income that isn't disposable.